RWL067 How to Revolutionize Leadership and Thrive in Remote Work with Pilar Orti

Navigating Challenges in Remote Work

Speaker 1

0:00

It's Alex, again from the Remote Work Life podcast. I have a really special guest with me today.

Speaker 1

0:06

Pilar Orti is from Virtual, not Distant, and little does Pilar know, but she's one of the very first podcasts that I started to listen to in relation to virtual and remote work, so she's very much been an inspiration to me in many ways in terms of setting up my podcast as well, and I mean part of this remote work life podcast is about putting a spotlight on people like Pilar, who are experts in the world of remote work, and really cutting through the noise so you can actually see who are the experts and who are not.

Speaker 1

0:45

Essentially, but Virtual Not Distant is all about consulting, training and podcast production for both established remote businesses as well as businesses who are looking to transition to the world of remote work. So I just had to have Pilar on today because I know a lot of you are, you know, in that mindset now where you're looking to really get an understanding of what remote work is. So if you're a HR manager, if you're in learning and development, if you're a manager or if you're a curious professional when it comes to remote work, then please keep listening. And, pilar, thank you so much for joining us today thank you.

Speaker 2

1:27

I didn't know you were a podcast listener. How?

Speaker 1

1:29

exciting. Yeah, yeah, I listen to podcast. I've got a select few podcasts that I listen to, and yours is. Yours is bookmarked great.

Speaker 2

1:38

Well, thank you very much. Lovely to be here with you and your listeners yeah, yeah, it's really, it's really exciting for me.

Speaker 1

1:44

This is because, as I said, pilar is one of the very first podcast, not just one of the very first podcast, but one of the very, as I said, very first remote related and virtual working related podcasts I listened to. So, pilar, tell us about you, tell us about how you came to this point yourself.

Speaker 2

2:01

Well, I followed a little bit what I needed and I also followed a little bit where I saw the trend was going in the world of work. So some time ago I was, uh, working as a leadership development trainer, as a team away facilitator, and I met my husband in Holland, in Amsterdam. So he wasn't my husband when I met him, obviously, but I mean who would be my husband? And also my father also was chronically ill, so I had to travel a lot to Madrid. So I found myself doing a lot of Amsterdam, madrid, london, and I thought I've got to make this work. And if I have any kind of freelance work, even that where I have to be somewhere in London, then this is not going to work, it's going to be difficult.

Speaker 2

2:45

So I looked around and there was a company that was offering management qualifications online and they needed someone to animate the forum. So I did that. This is where we had forums and not Slack. So we had someone to animate that. I did that. Then they said well, would you like to run some webinars? I did that and when I ran my first webinar, which was really old fashioned, just slides with people communicating via the chat, I finished and I was sweating and I was buzzing and I hadn't seen anyone.

Speaker 2

3:16

But I felt like I'd been in a room full of people and I thought, okay, this is a space that might work for me. And then on the side, I was blogging and I'd been writing stuff around leadership and you know it was okay. But then when I started to blog actually under virtual, not distant, which was the name of a book that will never get written Um, I noticed that those blog posts were getting traction, that they were getting comments, that they were getting interest, and I thought, okay, there's something there. Not many people are talking about this interest. And I thought, okay, there's something there. Not many people are talking about this. Not many HR professionals seem to be willing to incorporate technology into what they do, not many trainers. Really. Everyone's still very much in the room person. So that's that's how I went. So eventually I thought, okay, there's a business opportunity here and I'm still here, so yeah, something.

Speaker 1

4:05

Something's working. Well, lots is working, because obviously we're in a world now where the trend, uh for remote work is on an awkward trajectory, um, and I'd urge you to go and have a look at virtualvirtualnotdistantcom, and I'll obviously leave a few other details in the show notes as well. But you know, I'm curious. I mean, as you're here now and I've got got in front of me, I've got a few questions for you. As you can probably imagine, in terms of so, your whole, I suppose, journey towards remote work came about because of, you know, problems that you were experiencing yourself. Could you tell us a bit more, then, about the sorts of, I suppose, clients that I mean I've given you an overview but basically the sorts of work that you do, the sorts of typical clients that you work with as well?

Speaker 2

5:05

so, as always, there's a broad range depending on what I'm doing, but it's usually mainly in the uk.

Speaker 2

5:11

It's been people who are making that transition, who are starting to learn how to work together.

Speaker 2

5:16

So an obvious one is just in-house workshops, where the the, the managers, the team of managers, need not only to spend some time reflecting on how they need to change their leadership practice, but also how they can best use the technology that is available to them and also whether they can find a shared way of working, because, like with email and a lot of stuff, we've started to adapt to the medium without giving it a lot of thought and without really thinking is this how we want this to be done in the organization?

Speaker 2

5:50

And within that, there's companies, there's all sorts. There's small businesses, there's government agencies, some private global companies I've also worked with, and it's always about that. It's always about what do I need to change in my mindset and what do my team members need now from me, now that they're away from each other? So, and within that, all kinds of projects are from open workshops, which I do for another company, for hub events, which are really interesting because I really get a sense of what is really going on, of what is really going on, and you see how companies are still not incorporating, not choosing best technology, not being trained. The people are not being trained in how to use the technology.

Speaker 1

6:32

Still, all that too, um, every now and then I do work with smaller companies where it are fully distributed, so it's a whole range of uh, of people so, yeah, it is, it sounds like a big range of people, but, um, yeah, there is a need, certainly, because, like you said, there's, um, there's so much information out there and when you read all that information, it can become overwhelming and you're not really sure who to turn to, because there are many people who who are saying that you know that they specialize in this area. But it does help when you can actually come straight to somebody, like Pilar about remote work, and we're going to talk, actually, in a little bit, about this whole idea of switching the challenges in terms of switching from being in a co-located scenario to working in a remote space. We're going to be talking about a little bit, but I'm intrigued as well to know about what challenges you had because, like you said, you were shuttling between Spain and the UK. What challenges did you face initially, when you were first starting out?

Speaker 2

7:40

Well, I suppose, as a freelancer and small business owner, probably the same, and as I'm mainly a trainer, so the main thing I started out doing one is finding people and finding people who have that issue. So that is. That is one of them. Otherwise, I've been freelance for for most of my professional life, so I'm very used to swapping between people. I'm very used to establishing rapport very quickly with people and also because, as I said, because I had already been using Skype for a very long time to stay in touch with my family, I wasn't afraid of the medium, so I can see that that can be something that when you're used to building rapport with people, new clients, whatever in person to then switch that online, it needs some taking getting used to.

Speaker 2

8:28

The challenges for me have been finding a space to go to which when we are remote. A lot of people work from home, but it might also be that we don't want to be working from home. Like we know, remote does not mean only from home. So finding a good space that suited me in travel time. I don't want to be traveling. If I can work from anywhere, why do I want to be getting on the tube? But sometimes the best space for me needed travel, and also somewhere where I felt comfortable, so that I wasn't so. I felt better than at home, either because of the physical space or because of the people around me. So I think those are challenges that, especially when people start working away from headquarters, sometimes we think, oh yeah, I'd like to work in that space and then actually that that's not true no, I know what you mean and it sounds like as well.

Speaker 1

9:18

You know you've made the most of, of using, using the, your transferable skills in many ways because, like you said you, you're able to really hit it off with people in terms of having, you know, having the icebreaker and clicking. This is the first time we've met actually everybody yes. Pilar's background is um in theater as well. You were there to tell us about that as well.

Speaker 2

9:43

Oh, yes, that was Well. I even have a degree in biology before I trained. Yeah, I came to London to do a degree in biology, which I love, I still love, I really love science. I love anything to do with it, with the human body and mind, which is also. I think it makes sense that I've ended up where I am. Yeah, I trained as an actress. I love acting, I love theater and I ran a theater company for 10 years, a small scale theater company, which is where I learned also to teach and train. So everything by doing I discovered that I really enjoyed that. So, yeah, I did that for a while and and I still work as a voiceover now sometimes.

Speaker 1

10:21

so, yes, I still keep that bit of artistic work going well, tell you what for anybody who's listening, who is you know, I mean, we're not focused mainly on this, but if anybody who is listening is in in terms of transitioning their career, pilar has made the best of each one of her, her skills and her attributes and she understands herself, obviously, and where her strengths lie, and she's now consulting in this area. So I think that's just a bit of a lesson in itself that just have a look at what you've done and how you can apply it to whatever direction you're looking to go. But no, I think that's wonderful. It's a wonderful story.

Speaker 1

11:03

Well, let's get into to peel up, because we're in a situation right now I'm not going to go too much into detail about that on the podcast, but we're, you know, often we're. We're in a situation now, and you may be in a situation where you are looking to really move your team and really enable your team in many ways, to to make a transition to remote work. So I wanted to ask pila, while she's on certain questions about that and give us a few tips and some of her experience and guidance. So I wanted to ask you what, what in terms of what does when you're looking to, when you've been a manager who has worked in a co-located scenario. There are obviously quite significant differences in that to a manager who is now managing their team on a remote basis. Can you just describe some of those for us please, some of those differences, please?

Speaker 2

11:59

So the main difference, and the one that people always quote, is that those quick, informal conversations that we can have just by turning around, that we don't have to plan and that just come out, or those moments of joy when we bump into each other in the corridor or whatever. So that is one main difference. The other one is, of course, that visibility of people and that reassurance that they are working because we see them at their desks. So that reassures us that because we see them, we know they're working. So that's one. The other thing that people always think about is meetings. You know, how are we going to have those meetings, which my answer is always you need to reduce those meetings, don't worry too much.

Speaker 2

12:45

So I think those are the three main things, and also how to keep that team spirit going. And something that also changes is the way that you advocate for your team, because if a team is in an organization, or if an organization mainly has people co-located, um, then we see people from other uh places in the organization. Often we might comment what we're working on and then the work of the team is visible in that way. However, when we're away from each other, we also might lose that connection with the organization, and that that's also something that the manager, as advocate for the team, needs to be thinking about and as manager I mean, because I suppose trust is very much part and parcel of what you're talking about there as well.

Speaker 1

13:33

But as a manager, what should I be looking to do? What does my I suppose my new role look like in terms of managing my once co-located team to my you know know now remote team?

Speaker 2

13:50

yeah, so yes, and and it's and that's interesting in itself because it it's suddenly okay. What am I here for? So okay, am I here to check that everyone is working? We're probably not, but actually you probably are there to support people, to make sure they have access to the information and contacts that they might need. So it's almost you start to adopt the role of facilitator, the role of coach In the beginning, the role of ecosystem manager or ecosystem DJ, making sure that you've got all the systems in place so people can communicate as easily as possible, because, for example, asking for help needs to be easy.

Speaker 2

14:30

So if we have a system in place where, I don't know, every Thursday morning we have big question time and everyone posts their big question, or we have a small catch up where we concentrate on that, so it's really about understanding that we've got the technology in place, with the right process and the right behavior, so that our teams can communicate. So, yeah, so I suppose that we stop being the supervisor as much, but we start being the coach, help people to really learn to solve problems by themselves, because distance means sometimes that we need that a bit more that making sure the team stays connected and cohesive and, as I was saying earlier, that advocate for the team stays connected and cohesive and uh, and so I was saying earlier that advocate for for the team and it says I mean, there may be some managers who are struggling with this in terms of and you kind of hinted on it in your, your first answer around you know what, what the differences are, but there may be some managers struggling with actually letting go, almost you know.

Speaker 1

15:28

I mean just because obviously you can't like you said before, you can't see what they're doing, you can't hear the conversations that they're having. How, how do you sort of do that sort of thing? I mean, I've got ways in which I would do it, but what? What would you say?

Speaker 2

15:46

and that's very important. The first thing is to notice that we're doing that and to then avoid replicating that, because now we can replicate that. You know, we can make people be that. We can ask people to change the status every time they're at the computer. We we have these awful programs, which I haven't heard about for ages. You know, that monitor your keystrokes and stuff like that.

Speaker 2

16:05

So we really have to be careful that a lot of what we're introducing is to enable communication between team members and not for us to make sure that everyone is working, like you're saying, and so the self-awareness is the first piece. And then make it more about seeing the work rather than people working. How can you make that work visible? Is it about having completion of tasks visible so everyone can see it? Because knowing what everyone is doing in the team is good for the whole team, not just for the manager. And taking a step back and if we're having open conversations, for example in Slack, making sure we're not reading everything every day and butting in all the time In a way, a way now you need, with the tech as it is, unless you're careful you, it can actually spark that again. It can spark that. Oh, I can control, because now I can see everything exactly, yeah yeah.

Speaker 2

16:59

So it's really every interaction and every time we're checking in on someone, just stopping and thinking, actually, is this for the team member and the team and the work, or is it just for me? And to try and be um, yeah, try and be not as uh self-centered. What? What were you thinking about?

Speaker 1

17:19

well, what I was thinking is, um, really that I I think you have to. I not everybody works in the same way, do they? Yes, you're right, some people may need more than others, more in terms of interaction or more in terms of I don't know meetings or meetups, for example. So in a way, you have to be more involved with the people that you work with, but kind of understanding each person's needs individually. So once you know your team better and I suppose working remotely is going to force you to know your team a bit better Once you know their needs, then you can then understand how to best serve their needs and how you can help them with their work or help them with their daily tasks or whatever it may be. So it's really getting a real understanding.

Speaker 2

18:12

I would have thought yeah, and you really, like you say, it's the irony that if we're going to be working through technology, we need to understand the person even better and, like you're saying, and also making sure that there is that balance in the team. There will be times that team members want to be knowing what everyone is doing and want to be talking together, but also making sure that they have the time to be, to have time to work on their own and time to relax and relax. What I mean by relax is and reflect and have time to think on their own, and that balance is really important.

Speaker 1

18:44

Yeah and what kind of questions? Because, again, each person has their own um, I don't know their own barometer in terms of what stresses them out, what doesn't stress them out. Sometimes questions can stress people out, can't they, I guess? But at the same time, when you're working, you want to be there for your team, but you don't want to be there too much, if you see what I mean. So what kind of questions can you ask your team to make sure that they're okay, without sort of feeling, without being on top of them, I suppose?

Building Remote Team Support Networks

Speaker 2

19:15

well, as you said, it will really depend on the individual yeah but I think, um, so so I'm going to share a framework that I really like that helps a lot, and it's it's. It's not, it's not really about asking questions, but it's about creating that framework. So, um, johan lillich from freistit came up with this thing called direct, and it's okay, let's um, what, what kind of this? Have you made a decision lately that, that, uh, that can impact the team? Have you had any insights lately? Have you had any results that you're particularly proud about? Uh, are there any emotions that have been particularly strong or different lately? And have you made any connections lately that might help the team? Any contacts? Are you going through any troubles? And I've added, is there anyone you would like to thank at the moment?

Speaker 2

20:07

And that spells direct, and what that does is, instead of saying how you're doing or what's up or what's recent, if you've got that framework, it just helps you think a little bit more, because I think what happens if we're working away from people? Things still happen at work, whether it's through the computer or whatever. And then to answer the question how are you getting on? Sometimes really difficult because it's so open. So there's two things we can do. One is do that question with the people that we know that that's all they need. Just need to be asked and off they go. Other people might take a little bit more, and so maybe we can ask some more specific questions, or we can even get used to using a framework in our team to help that conversation no, that's really good.

Speaker 1

20:52

I'm gonna link to that in the um in the show notes. Thank you for that. That's really interesting. I've not come across that one before um. I want to ask as well, because we talked you talked about meetings as well earlier on and the temptation could be to meet, you know, quite often during the day, or you may feel as though, okay, you've got a team of 20 or 30 people and you're trying to check on them. How do you do that? How do you check on 20 people and how many times do you meet per day? How do you sort of get around that people?

Speaker 2

21:25

I have no idea. I'm not gonna lie, so I think um. So I'll do a plug for a book I've written, uh, recently and then I'll make a confession.

Speaker 1

21:35

So I wrote this book.

Speaker 2

21:35

Online meetings that matter, so it's out now everyone can get. It took me about two and a half years by the end of that recently, and then I'll make a confession. So I wrote this book online meetings that matter, so it's out now everyone can get it. It took me about two and a half years by the end of that. Now I'm like no, my mission is actually to reduce the amount of meetings in remote teams. So, after thinking through all that and um and so, one of the things is to, if you have a team like 30 people, which is quite big is to really pick the times when you need the whole team to be meeting together. So probably they're all hands-on. Uh, some social ones, probably ones where something really important has happened that one team member needs to communicate to everyone else and get input into to really pick them, because 30 people online I mean 30 people anyway in a room is too many people, but online it's even worse.

Speaker 2

22:23

So pick those times and start to trust and this is back to your point of that changing mindset start to trust for team members to meet without you. You know it's fine, it really is fine, and in fact, sometimes meetings will be more productive when the manager is not there. However non-hierarchical we want to be, sometimes maybe more stuff gets done because people are feel a little bit freer to speak without us. This is the reality, no matter how wonderful we are. So that is one. The other is to have systems in your ecosystem where people can have very quick conversations so that we don't wait until the meeting to have those conversations. So we need to be able to be having the conversations when we need them with our team members, and that is probably going to be asynchronous. Or we might also get into the habit of, if we need something, pick up the phone, talk to that one person and then that's and then that's done, rather than always waiting till we're all together in the meeting. So that is one.

Speaker 2

23:24

The other is often meetings are there for people to make decisions. So it's really important if we can identify times when we can delegate that decision making to either the individual or a group of individuals, because if not, you really can get into a habit of every time I need to make a decision, I need the whole team around me, and that is just really not productive and not conducive to good teamwork, actually. So that's one, and yeah, and try and get involved, for those meetings involve as many people in the running of the meeting. So one person might be the facilitator, who's kind of getting the conversation going, but somebody might be, um, looking at time keeping. Might also be interesting to have someone who looks after the health of people. While we're online.

Speaker 2

24:09

It's reminding us all to stretch rest of course yeah, yeah so, so really don't think that you have to be doing everything in the meeting, which sometimes is the temptation.

Speaker 1

24:28

And the other thing I mean with all of this yeah, you're working remotely, you've got 20, 30 people in your team, and it's not just about you supporting the team, it's about also having somebody there to support you as well. It can be really, really overwhelming. I can imagine having a team of 20 online. I've not managed a team of that size myself online before, but it can be quite overwhelming. How do you set up your support network? Who do you speak to in terms of getting that support?

Speaker 2

24:54

So if you're in an organization, you might want to talk to other people in the organization in other departments, et cetera. So that's an easy one. And the way to do that is just you need to reach out and you need to be making those connections that you have to be proactive with that. So that's one. The other one if you don't want to find your support network in your organization for whatever reason, then you need to be reaching out in other ways. So, for example, marcus Vermouth from Buffer, who I talked to a lot on the podcast he's great. He just at some point just put out a note on LinkedIn and said okay, if anyone wants to meet, let's just talk and let's let you know. Just let's start to create that support network.

Speaker 2

25:35

And I think that the online space has changed so much that that is completely acceptable now. It's completely acceptable to go on some social media and say I'm this kind of person, I'm looking to talk to people like this, and it's quite easy to set up that meeting. There's loads of online communities now of all kinds of shape and form, not just for remote managers, but managers in general. Um, you can join those. They usually have a mixture of asynchronous communication with, with live stuff, um and that and and also any just you need. The interesting thing is to find the support system not when you most need it not when you're overwhelmed.

Speaker 2

26:19

Set that up before the beginning yeah, you need to be working on it constantly and even saying, okay, I've got three or four people, I'm going to meet regularly with them every three months, it doesn't matter if I'm okay and I'm going to make the time, because building that trust with those people is going to pay off when I really really, really need them. And also, you learn so much from just talking to other people, from what they're doing, so, yeah, so that's a really that's very important to to think ahead about that and not wait till you really need it yeah, and I think it might be important to um to link to some of those, those groups.

Speaker 1

26:53

Actually, again, in the show notes, I might come back to you on that afterwards, um, pilar. But, yeah, support networks. I mean my support network includes, um, not just people who are within the world of remote work, but people who you know have a have a coach as well. You know a personal coach, um, even family members and and colleagues who, who? Colleagues who I could just um, not even colleagues, friends who work online, who aren't any way or shape any shape or form involved in the work I do. So I could just have a conversation with them and just talk about football or talk about you know what's happening.

Speaker 1

27:29

Yeah, so, no, it's great advice, thank you. And in terms of staying connected because I mean that is another, obviously a big component of remote work and that's something that you are very well involved in in terms of keeping the team, you know, just just galvanized I suppose I don't know if that's a good word probably how you know what are the ways in which you can keep your team on track and galvanized so, uh, do you mean socially, informally or more focused work focused?

Speaker 1

28:05

I think more work focused first of all.

Effective Remote Team Collaboration Tools

Speaker 2

28:08

Yeah, I would say so again, it's going back to anything that is making the work visible for as much as possible. Uh, tell me if this is where you were going to. Yeah, sure, just in case I go off on one. So, for example, using the online tools to really keep that work visible and give us that sense of connection, and working towards something as a whole, for example, something like a Trello board.

Speaker 2

28:31

I love Trello, you can see everything that's going on, but it's really the information is very compartmentalized, if that's the word, and it's very easy to go and look at what people are doing and feel, okay, yeah, there's other people there, even if they're not next to you. The fact that they have this, as long as the board is kept up to date, because that's another thing that sometimes we set processes up for connection, they just fizzle out and then they become processes of disconnection. So I think, as a manager's really important that that anything we're setting up to keep the team together and to keep that sense of cohesion, that we're continuously monitoring that it's working and if it's not working, admit that, understand why and change it in some way, but don't let things fizzle out, because that is really a point of disconnection. Is that the kind of thing you were absolutely yeah for example, spot on.

Speaker 1

29:23

Yeah, that is spot on, and what I'd actually say as well on top of that, it's not all about work, is it? Because, yes, we're, you're here to do work. We're not here to do work, but we're talking about doing work. So that's important and the best ways to get work done. But we can't be working all day long and we've got to have a bit of downtime here and there. And as remote workers, what we tend to do is overwork, if nothing else. So we need to get out of the habits of doing that. How can we, um, keep those impromptu conversations and the cooler moment, you know, the water cooler moments, or even sort of just generally, how can we sort of keep that banter going?

Speaker 2

30:07

I suppose you could say as well yeah, so how can we remind, how can we continuously remind ourselves that we're human, it's another one and and and yes, and that there is more to that. There is more about us than what we see through our tasks, I think. So one thing is, at the moment, almost every knowledge well, so many people are online now, more than they were, for example, a month ago that a lot of people are doing as they're forced to work from home. They are setting up drinks, coffees, gym classes, zumba classes, everything is happening.

Speaker 2

30:41

So this is very interesting, because this is the one thing that the remote community has always done, which is have virtual coffees, and it's perfectly fine to switch on your camera and meet without knowing what you're going to talk about, and in some teams and organizations it's well, it's mostly optional, so you don't even know who's going to turn up. So and that is part of nature is not knowing who's going to be there, what you're going to talk about. So all these virtual coffees that we've been championing as a way of, like I say, planned spontaneity because if you don't plan for these coffees, they don't happen and then you can be spontaneous they're going to start to be more acceptable and I think, as more teams go remote or transition to more office optional these things they're not going to be new anymore. So this concept of as co-workers meeting online just to catch up, I think it's going to be more acceptable, and that is one very easy way of doing that, of reminding us that we're still humans.

Speaker 1

31:41

So, yeah, that's another way we're um and we're still humans. So, yeah, that's another way. I like that. And in terms of um, I mean tech, I mean you talk. You've talked about trello, you've talked about slack, um, it can sometimes be again for any. If you're new, I guess it can be quite overwhelming because there's so many people out there saying they've got this tool for that and that tool for this and you can use Slack and Skype and Zoom. What are the entry-level, I suppose, simple collaboration tools that will just help people to just start out with those video conversations or, if it's not one to well, video conversations and meetings, I suppose let's should we just focus on those two? What are those good tools out there?

Speaker 2

32:29

for video conversations and meetings. Uh well, zoom is doing very well I bet they are.

Speaker 2

32:34

Yeah, I can imagine and uh, I think that I think zoom is great. I was on something else the other day, yesterday, but, but I can't remember and I couldn't see. You could only see people on speak mode. So I think for one-to-one conversations, skype still works really well. What's it called? Classic Skype? Maybe it's called now, I don't know. So I think, whatever, if you've got those, I think for me Skype and Zoom they're what serves me best, but sometimes we can't use those because the computers that we've been given don't let us. So at the end of the day, sometimes it's what do we have access to also? Yeah, so can I say something about tools, please?

Speaker 2

33:18

I think, going back to your point of overwhelming, and how do we use this and what do we use for what? I think it's good to take a step back and say, okay, what do we need to know from each other and how often, and then start okay, what is the best way? So, for example, if we need to know our tasks and the breakdown of tasks and have that up to date, trello is great. We need more long form conversations. Maybe Slack, used asynchronously, might be good, because this is another thing is that we need to understand that tools are designed to be used in some way, but actually sometimes we can adapt how we use them and make them work for us. I think that's really important.

Speaker 2

34:00

And then, what are we creating? If we are? If we're creating uh long documents and stuff, then we probably want to be working as much as possible in the cloud on something like google doc or microsoft in office 365, so that we can have those conversations there in the document and not in a separate yes email or whatever. So what do we need to do, how often do we need to use it and what is then going to be the best tool and how we use it in a way that makes sense to us? So just because everyone's using chat as a chat, real time, almost real time thing doesn't mean we can post something and then we've agreed that we don't look at it for two days because that conversation is not that important. So it's really yeah.

Speaker 1

34:42

So all of that yeah, and I think really on top of that is just use the tools that keep it simple, really, and just use tools that are intuitive. I mean, skype is like you said, it's pretty good, it's pretty easy, it's just plug and play, and I mean it may be that you know, if you've got some sort of application on your phone and you need to have an impromptu meeting or speak to somebody, it might be just well and good just to pick up your phone and have a FaceTime with somebody. You know that sort of thing, but just keeping things simple, and I feel like that's been really, really good In terms of I'm intrigued as well. Thank you for that little segment there. But what are you working on at the moment? What are you? What's in the pipeline for Virtual Knot's distance?

Speaker 2

35:28

Well, we had lots of things planned and then the world came to a halt and I have found myself, very interestingly as I was saying to you before we were recording working a lot with Spain, because Spain traditionally has not embraced at all remote work. I mean, it's still called telework, because that's mainly what it is, and it's still that mindset that we are teleworking rather than we're working from wherever we work best. And they've been really suddenly forced to do that. So I'm working and, as a consequence, there are not many people like me there in Spain who can say, yeah, I've been thinking about this for a while. That's been a challenge, because my work is not to help people from one week to the other to work from home. My work has been to transition thoughtfully with a change in mindset, because I am, at heart, a coach and facilitator that I like to ask a lot of questions and guide people. At the moment, people need more guidance than to reflect. The space for reflection is still needed. But so, even as practitioner, I'm being challenged greatly.

Speaker 2

36:41

And then, something that we've been thinking about is one consolidating the work we do around visible teamwork. That is really something when we talk about deliberate communication, work, visibility and planned spontaneity. The whole visible teamwork is a whole thing that we've been working on for a while, really consolidating that, some, a set of principles and we can give to people. And then, if they've got skype teams sorry, skype slack, trello they can work with that. If they've got email and zoom, they can work with that, because these are principles.

Speaker 2

37:14

And then, finally, the last thing I we had planned to kick off this year, but I will see if it happens is this in-house podcasting, so something to help either organizations who have lots of remote workers or remote organizations, distributed organizations, to create some kind of communication that is audio based, that really brings the voices of the people, that brings the personalities of the people to the front, and something that is created within a community rather than a top down the front, and something that is created within a community rather than a top down, you know, ceo telling us what to do. So this is something that it'd be interesting to do we haven't started, but I think it, yeah, and also to just get people away from the screens, because we spend a lot of people in front of the screen. So a podcast for for those of us who, who can, who can hear will be a really nice way of moving away from the screen.

Speaker 1

38:05

Wow, it sounds like you're pretty busy.

Speaker 2

38:07

Well, we shall see Lots of ideas, as always.

Speaker 1

38:10

Sounds like you're very busy at the moment, but it's all good because it's very much needed and, like I said, I think people like Pilar need to be spoken about, and that's partly why I wanted to have pilar on the the podcast with us today, and you also. You mentioned one of your books, but there's another book that you've written as well. Tell us about your other books as well, before we, before we let you go very quickly.

Speaker 2

38:35

So if you go online meetings, that matter is the meeting book. Yeah, have a look. I think it's very interesting. It's really about yeah, it it's about the personal side of getting your team meeting in the best way possible. Anyway, interesting, thinking Remote is a collection of blog posts that I co-wrote with Maya Middlemiss and that is inspiration for distributed teams. Then I've got one about my voiceover career called Hi. I'm here for a Recording the Ordinary life of a voiceover artist. And I've got others, but I love writing and self-publishing has meant that I can write, get it out there and see what happens excellent.

Speaker 1

39:12

Well, pilar, it's been been great to finally speak to you, having listened to you for such a long time, and have you on the podcast. Thank you, we'll be looking out for what you're doing. I will leave your details in the show notes. Virtual, not distantcom. I'd urge you to have a look at pilar's website and listen to the podcast in. On whichever medium you listen to your podcasts and, pilar, we will be looking out for what you're doing in the future and thank you for joining us thank you.

Speaker 2

39:38

It's been a pleasure to meet you with a listener, yay I'm one of your listeners.

Speaker 1

39:44

Excellent, I will speak to you soon, pilar.