RWL046 How a Visionary Nomad Revolutionized Remote Work Insurance and Community Building

Speaker 1

0:02

Hello everybody, this is Alex from the Remote Work Life podcast. I want to thank you for joining me. I have a special guest with me today, andrew Jernigan, and he is the founder of Insured Nomads, and I've been speaking to Andrew for a few months now. We connected via Facebook, which is the beauty of social media and remote work as having remote work and digital nomad lifestyle in common, and I was intrigued by Andrew and the fact that he has a really, I suppose, necessary business that he runs on a remote basis as he travels or has traveled with his family. So, andrew, I want to thank you for joining the podcast, for joining the remote podcast.

Speaker 2

0:58

Thank you, it's a pleasure to be with you.

Speaker 1

1:00

Excellent, and as I always do, as I usually do, um, I start by asking what, what brought you here, what brought you to and embracing this uh, this uh lifestyle as a, as a digital nomad, as a remote worker. How did you get here?

Speaker 2

1:20

I guess one of the main reasons was love. In 2000, I resigned from my desk job, sold my Mercedes and decided to work remotely, traveled to several countries and in the process began a relationship with someone from another country other than my own and decided to relocate there. So I got started earning via outsourcing services and settled in Brazil for quite some a couple of years and continued that working remotely. Over the years I've kept going from the UK, us, thailand, ghana, south Africa, brazil, us Thailand, ghana, south Africa, brazil, mozambique and elsewhere. And really remote is the way forward for me. I've had corporate jobs where I've said you know, nope, I'm willing to join you but I'll be remote. And they've accepted that you know, not knowing most of the executives that I was working alongside on conference calls and Zoom calls etc.

Speaker 2

2:25

And even now, after 20 years of working remotely 20 years, yes, it was 2000 when I started this remote work journey, and not just remote work, but remote work around the world. So that was before it was called a digital nomad. And of course, being a digital nomad just means you have the freedom to do it. You can work from home and still be a digital nomad. That doesn't necessarily mean you're traveling. So location independence, so many different names for it. In this industry, I mean this segment.

Speaker 1

3:03

And that was what I guess. I suppose a lot of people, when they start out, they have that idea of wanting to have flexibility in their work or flexibility in their life. Was that a big, a big driver for you then?

Speaker 2

3:21

Absolutely. It's been flexible for various reasons through time, whether it's due to my wife's travels with her job, because she has a global role. So at times I've needed to work remotely so I could take care of the kids. If there's a teacher meeting or if I have to pick them up One season, it was because my parents, my aging parents so it may not be just because we want to travel aging parents so it may not be just because we want to travel. Working remotely is essential for various reasons for flexibility in this current day. So as we create companies, as we are in management of companies, we need to be as flexible as we can with teams. They may not be telling you the reason why they're working remotely or why they're required for it, and really it's one of those things where we shouldn't have to ask now of why are you working from X location? It should be almost one of those things of protective information by HR.

Speaker 1

4:20

No, I can see that and I agree because really, what we should be doing is enabling people to work in situations that suit them. Obviously, if they're able to work at their optimum level and their outputs are what's I heard you hear this all the time you know where they work shouldn't really have an impact as long as it doesn't impact the business and people around them. So it shouldn't necessarily. I agree.

Speaker 2

4:53

It shouldn't necessarily be a question, so right our other our question really shouldn't be whether someone could work remotely, but are we going to allow them enough freedom to not work too much remotely? Because the the flip side of it is is that our team members will put in more hours per day just if they're enjoying their work or if they have too much to do. We've got to encourage them to have a life other than their work.

Speaker 1

5:28

Yeah, and again, I agree on that because the tendency is well for a lot of people. I think productivity is a big challenge and you know, if you hire somebody in your company who is good at what they do and you you know you want them to work remotely, the challenge is not necessarily whether they're going to do the job, is that. The challenge is, like you said, is almost having them not overwork. You know, having them sort of have that to strike a balance, because from for me personally, when I first started, I didn't get the balance right at all. I I overworked. Um, what you often find is when you work remotely is you can do more. For me personally, you can do more than you would if you were to work in more of a I suppose, a co-located situation.

Speaker 1

6:23

I don't know if you found that yourself, Andrew absolutely, especially when you love your work and that's key because, again, if you've got all, if you're hiring somebody and you know that they're a good match for your business because they love what you do, then they're a good match in terms of they, they love what they do, in terms of the work. You literally you've got the all the ingredients for somebody who you could just say, okay, do what you do, go ahead and do it. Give them that trust, give them that flexibility, give them that leeway to to do what they do. So, yes, but anyway, I mean, andrew, I want you to tell us more about um insured nomads before we go any further, because it's one of those things. Again, when I, when I first started working remotely, you, you don't insurance is not one of the first things you think about um, and it's so important because there's so many, so much more responsibility on your shoulders than before.

Speaker 2

7:26

So tell us about Insured Nomads, yes, it's a response to a change in the industry actually, as we have a gig workforce where people are working for Upwork, they're working for their freelancing or they're telling their company they want to work remotely financing, or they're telling their company they want to work remotely. A lot of times the personnel department, the HR, is not putting them on a global plan, they're not putting them on the standard health plan, so you have to go out and find your own. So Insured Nomads has stepped in due to a gap in this industry and we serve the location independent, the remote workers, with high-level benefit products, providing great service and really at much more reasonable prices than has been available out there.

Speaker 2

8:15

Going back in time, I recall when we relocated from the US to an African country, I could not get term life insurance. So I live there, you know, going malaria over and over other things, flipping our SUV, et cetera, without life insurance for my wife and kids. We've made it where that's possible for cross-border term life insurance. We have great global medical insurance for when you have trips. Travel insurance Remote workers shouldn't be on travel insurance if they're spending most of the year abroad. Just a side note Disability insurance for those who are living outside their passport country, Things like that. We started it because there's a need for better. There's not a need for another insurance company. There's a need for better.

Speaker 1

9:13

And what do you do better? I mean, you mentioned a few things that potentially are different there. What do you do better than the others?

Speaker 2

9:22

One our claim service. One our claim service. The providers that we've partnered with for administration and assistance are phenomenal. Their service levels, their response time is really good. We utilize all the chat forms practically that are in use right now, from WeChat to Telegram to Messenger, whatsapp and even Discord for you gamers out there. So we are here for you to walk you through the purchase, through assistance all throughout it, and usually you're having to piece together things going from one company to another in the international product space. So we're putting it all in one spot to where you can get what you need, without going from one company for this, one company for that, with global service numbers.

Speaker 1

10:27

No, I mean, it's always good to have things all under one roof, isn't it? Rather than having to trawl the internet and do all your research and try and like budge things together to make sure that you've got everything in place. The last thing you want to, when you're sitting there with your, your mac or your, I don't know you're on your phone, you have some sort of mishap or something, that the last thing you want to be doing is going on back over your notes and having to go here and there and everywhere, and you know you want everything in one, in one place, don't you?

Speaker 1

11:01

yes absolutely so. What? What brought you to the um, to the insurance space? What? Why did you choose that as as your, as your routine, and how? Tell us a bit more about I get, I get, I guess, the, I don't know, the, the, the process, not the process, the actual journey that you took to becoming, you know, heading up, insured Nomads?

Global Health Insurance for Remote Workers

Speaker 2

11:29

Well, I was in healthcare administration in the US. I ended up marrying a doctor who became a travel med doc, global health doc. She's actually one of our founders and is working extremely much. With the current pandemic that we're going through, our volume has picked up significantly with this as well. But really getting into risk management is just because I care, seeing way too many people look at insurance and say I can't afford it, or buying something they didn't need or less than they needed and not not having the um, the educated brokers, intermediaries to share with them how to do it.

Speaker 2

12:18

So this process of building a broker network, the intermediate network around the world, building the affiliate marketing platform so that everyone can monetize and sell our products, it's quite a journey, but it's not because of of insurance, it's about protecting people. I see myself as the knight with a shield and a sword to make sure that you're protected. So that's the why. Also because where we started out from the beginning, one of our co-founders is actually all of our co-founders are fully just social impact based. We're looking to fund significantly the work of Not For Sale, which is a global nonprofit that works in human trafficking, the protection and provision for those still in the plight to get out of human trafficking those that are, whether it is commercial labor or various aspects, from quarries in children working in quarries to those working in clothing stores, to the sex trade. So we're working to fund that significantly.

Speaker 1

13:38

No, I think those are all worthwhile reasons why, I think, yeah, it's one of those things, isn't it? Where you've got you only know what you know. I guess don't you when it comes to when you decide to pack your bags and go traveling, it's always good to have that peace of mind that insurance that you take out is going to cover you, and it's even more reassuring that if the person who heads up the business that is going to give you that coverage has your best interests at heart, it sounds like Insured Nomads does. So I love that. I really like that, and not only just your customers, but also, like I said, the human trafficking. I always love when there's a different element to business that's trying to do better, not just for the business but for people in general. So that's great. I love that. Andrew, you mentioned the pandemic at the moment and the fact that your numbers are. Your numbers are going up. Do you think that's directly related to what's going on with with the coronavirus?

Speaker 2

14:51

Absolutely. You know there's in the remote work field. Many people decide to work outside their passport country and for some reason it's been promoted that you should get travel insurance when you're doing that, even though they plan on living for a year or three years outside their passport country. Travel insurance is for a trip, not for a lifestyle. And so right now people are finding that their travel insurance is void, or if they were to get infected, it would be excluded the next time they buy travel insurance because it's a pre-existing condition. So right now people are turning to us because our Nomad Health Insurance plans have no exclusions for coronavirus and that's nomadhealthinsurancecouk, or you could just go to insurednomadscom.

Speaker 2

15:48

But right now people are realizing okay, I traveled and I don't have insurance at all, so I need to purchase. Or I traveled and now my insurance is void, or it will be soon, as soon as the country I'm in is declared a do not travel zone by the British government, the US government, etc. And at that point they either have to get out and if there are no flights, you're stuck and your interest has been voided. So sure, there are travel policies that aren't being voided, but still it's travel policy. So if you get sick. The next travel policy you have will exclude anything that is a pre-existing condition, such as a pre-existing infection like this wow, I mean, wow, I mean.

Speaker 1

16:38

It makes you wonder, then, why is there not more information readily and freely available about this? Why does it take? Can I address that really quick.

Speaker 2

16:50

Yeah, please. One insurance is complex and people are pinching pennies so they buy the cheapest cover they can for their trip, because they don't want to read through the fine print of well, I'm traveling, so I get travel insurance right, Versus paying 10 times more for a global health policy. But if you're diagnosed with a disease while you're traveling for a year, you should have had a global health policy. Yeah, it's basically the money. People don't understand this and they pay for something cheap.

Speaker 1

17:29

I guess that that kind of it kind of reveals a I suppose a I mean you, you're covering a gap in terms of providing the insurance, but when, I guess, when you're thinking about becoming a nomad or remote worker or moving just, you know, not necessarily being nomadic but just moving somewhere else and going to work, it goes to show that, I suppose, at the top of mind is not, which I suppose is, I guess, understandable At the top of mind you don't think okay, what happens if I get sick?

Speaker 1

18:07

I mean, you don't really think about those things. I suppose when you're in that situation where you want to just get up and go, you're thinking about, you know where are you going to stay and who are you going to be with and the equipment that you're going to take, and you may, you may insure the equipment, but you don't think necessarily about how your, how those things are going to get covered, outside of the one thing I just mentioned. And I suppose it rests on, I suppose, if you are going to be doing that, it rests on your shoulders to have that understanding and do the research, and I think Andrew's solution can help with that. You know, make sure you've got all bases covered.

Speaker 2

18:50

Group plans with us start at two people. So if it's a small business, all the way to a major corporation or charitable organization, educational organization, so this is not just for individuals and families but for business entities, for discounting, for group rates and underwriting. But you know, insurance gets complex and it's one of those things that, okay, let's people blank out. Now it's like, okay, change subjects, you've gotten too deep. But it's one of the things we have to overcome in protecting people.

Speaker 1

19:31

Stop long enough to understand what you're purchasing rather than just look at the price and the perceived features and make a proper plan as well when you're thinking about going, rather than just look at the price and the perceived features, and make a proper plan as well when you're thinking about going elsewhere, to a different country. Plan everything. I mean, I know a lot of people have a tendency just to get up and go. I don't know. I know people, I know friends, I know family, who are of that, have that sort of um nature where they just think you know, I'm here now, let's just take, let's just take everything go traveling or go, go and work. But I think you've got to be a bit more, a bit more shrewd than that Um, especially in the times that we're living in now. You've got, you have to have a contingency plan. You have to have a safety net. You have to have a safety net.

Speaker 2

20:20

you have to, you know, just have things in place to to make sure that when you get to your destination, all you can, all you have to think about, is the day-to-day things like work and living and having fun, right, you know yeah, I was think when you're saying that, it reminded me I was one of our clients, one of our insurers, healthy, in his mid-20s, going off to an African country, and it's like you know, I really don't need insurance but I guess I should get it. He had a $500 excess, perfectly healthy, you know, just covered, I think, worldwide excluding North America. Just covered, I think, worldwide excluding North America. And so it was so inexpensive because of his age. Sure, it was maybe $200 more than travel insurance, but this was a global plan.

Speaker 2

21:11

He went to visit a family member during his year policy in Chiang Mai, went to the hospital with a headache and they determined he had a brain tumor. Oh my gosh, for Bangkok couldn't fly anywhere. So for his, his policy was close to $1,000 for the year. He had a 500 excess and he had brain surgery removed a tumor, had brain surgery removed a tumor. He got back, went to Johns Hopkins for a review, said excellent surgery, everything is great, he's still a client, now married, he's given the raving Google review, etc. But it's that thing where he didn't think he needed insurance but he thought you know, I'll do it, I'll go ahead and do it. And now you know I'll do it, I'll go ahead and do it. And now you know, of course, married, his wife has an, etc. Has coverage, and you know this is years, years later, but it's so much fun to make sure that people are protected.

Speaker 1

22:10

No one will use it and the average person doesn't no, yeah, well, yeah, protect yourself with the, with the thought, that thought that I'm not going to use it. Put that in place and then put it to the back of your mind, right and for you. I mean, you've talked a lot about insurance Personally, from your point of view, andrew. You're an experienced remote worker. 20 years behind you, you've done travelling to different continents, continents. That all sounds great to me and it all looks great, so you have a lot of um knowledge to to sort of to be able to share with people on some of the challenges that you've had to overcome as well, in terms of maintaining not just your business, but you've got a family, you've got three children. What have been the biggest challenges that you've had to overcome?

Speaker 2

23:02

since our remote work experience has taken us to many different countries. One of the biggest challenges is, of course, raising kids in this lifestyle, education, making sure they're having community, which is a factor with remote work anyway, is having community because you don't have the office tribe to go to lunch with and to go go to grab a coffee etc. So that's, whether you're working remotely in your hometown or you're working remotely in Rio de Janeiro, as I am today, it's building the tribe. And when you do that as a family it's even more challenging Because my daughter yesterday was with a friend who has lived in, just moved here from, I believe, dominican Republic and before that was in Angola and is planning on moving to Canada next year. Her other best friend is from Sweden and here we are. She's American but living in Brazil. So sure that's a challenge is being unique.

Speaker 2

24:22

And as a good friend of mine wrote a book, use your Difference to Make a Difference. His name is Tayo Roxson. It's in our differences, our differences, that we can really change things, just like changing the insurance world. It's understanding that people everyone is unique and has a different need. They may not be best fit for our product so we may refer them to another company.

Speaker 2

24:52

It's looking out for the people we're with, whether it's our family, our friends, our family members, to build a true community authenticity through the hardships. That's probably one of the biggest challenges to overcome, because traditional workers don't understand the remote worker. Even if you're a local with them, you just sit at home, right. You watch TV shows all day at home, right, that's what they day at home, right, that's what they say yeah, right or oh, you're off in this place. It must be incredible. And when you're actually sitting at your laptop for 14 hours a day and you're not seeing the incredible place where you're actually working, so yeah, that's probably one of the biggest challenges is the community aspect for yourself and for your spouse and kids, with remote work.

Speaker 1

25:54

Yeah, and that's a pretty common theme actually among people I've spoken to who either have worked remotely for a number of years or just just sort of dipping their toe in or just getting into the world of remote work. Is that, yeah, building community, um, in a way that's just, I guess in a way reflects what they used to be when they were working in a collocated situation. But you can't really, it doesn't really reflect, does it? It's, you have to be a bit more deliberate about it in many ways, don't you? You have to, yeah, take deliberate steps to get to know people and really try to communicate, try to.

Speaker 2

26:39

If you're not naturally adverse to, sort of inclined to mix and and share ideas, then you almost have to sort of force yourself out of your, your bubble to to create that community, to create that, that, those contacts, because the last thing you want is to isolate yourself yeah, and we're such an isolationist society now it's not like we're we're borrowing eggs from our neighbor anymore, or and we're such an isolationist society now it's not like we're borrowing eggs from our neighbor anymore, or that we're actually getting to know our neighbors because we say, okay, our neighbor isn't going to be our friend, we just go in and out.

Speaker 2

27:13

Society has shifted over time to where we're very, very selective of who we decide can come in our circle. That's true Versus the agriculture society, the manufacturing society, the unions, the labor groups, where you just went out to the social gatherings with those that you were in your community, whether you like them or not. Now it's like, nope, I don't like them, I don't like them, I don't like them. So in the end, it's like you don't like anybody. So you don't have a social network, except a virtual world, whether it is a social network or gaming, or internations, or whatever the social network is that you're deciding to virtually be part of.

Speaker 1

27:59

I suppose what I hear a lot is there's this tag. I mean there's many sort of stigmas attached to remote work, as you've pointed a couple of them out. This word isolation now it's okay, they're not synonymous. I don't think remote work and isolation is necessarily synonymous. No, not at all, and that's what I don't want to sort of go off on a bit of a rant now. But uh, it's, I think it's, it's almost becoming.

Speaker 1

28:34

Isolation is part, is, has become part of, it's always been there before. Remote work was there, I mean, the people isolate themselves. Before personal choice was around, it was yeah, it's, it's a personal choice and I think, yes, there is a tendency to be, obviously to be more alone, but it doesn't necessarily mean that remote workers are isolationist or or desire to be alone. It's just that we have to learn as human beings to be more, like you said, look over the parapet to check on your neighbour, to talk to one another, and I think, in a way, remote work is an opportunity to be more deliberate where that is concerned. But, as I said, I don't want to go off on a rant because we'll go off on a tangent and we'll go on for a bit too long, but I've got a few more questions for you, andrew, before we wrap things up. And I mean in terms of you've got a team around you as well where Insured Nomads is concerned. What have been your main challenges when it's come to actually hiring remote talent?

Speaker 2

29:53

I believe the challenge is knowing how people communicate best and getting to know them as an individual, even though you're working remotely, because the temptation is to jump right into a task, into the current project and to be all work and then you forget to realize that, oh, this person does like words of affirmation, or this person likes quality time. And we don't have quality time. We have purposeful time whenever there's interaction. So, as we live our lives to actually care for people, we have to learn to care for our fellow remote workers more than the function they're providing.

Speaker 1

30:46

No, I like that, I like that and I think, again, it's remote work, I always say, is about people. It puts people first. The best remote teams, the best remote workers put people first. And in the times that we're living in now, we can't avoid the the whole issue around um coronavirus and there are probably many people now that perhaps previously worked in an office building that are now having to turn to remote working. And I think central to that is what andrew has been talking about, which is thought, thinking about people.

Speaker 1

31:29

Obviously, work has to be done. If you, if you're working within a business, the work has to be done. But it requires that you know working with other people require, especially if you're managing other people, it requires that you are cognizant of how they are, how they're doing. And, again, you have to be a bit more deliberate about understanding and asking questions, not so much that you overwhelm them, but to a point that you understand them and and and can help them as much as you possibly can. And again, andrew's point about, I guess, the challenges of hiring people Before you hire remote workers, think about how you're going to manage them as well and think about having a plan to manage, not necessarily in a cookie-cutter way. Manage people based on their needs as far as possible.

Speaker 2

32:37

Yes.

Speaker 1

32:39

You know. Okay, andrew, before we wrap up, what are the plans for insured nomads? What? What are your? You're in a busy time right now, as you described earlier on. What are the plans going forward?

Speaker 2

32:57

yes, we are in a major online transformation. So, although I'd love for you to follow us on social media, which is at InsuredNomads, on any channel, but our website, insurednomadscom will be under a full relaunch at the end of the month have anyone who is using links and social media on your website, etc. To join our affiliate program, because this is a big project of ours really is to get more people protected and reward people who are making that happen, referring business our way. So we're launching new products all throughout the year. So that's those are some of the highlights of what's coming, adding new team members, etc. It's a busy, great time of growth for us sounds good.

Speaker 1

33:58

Uh, you mentioned a couple of urls. I'll include them, of course, in the show notes so that anybody who who wants to have a look at insured nomads can do so, because I think it's. It's a necessity that you have your insurance in place, it's necessity, so I'll include those in the show notes. And again, one, just one more question for you before you go, because I know you're a man who's traveled in different locations, different continents, as we've discussed before. What's the most unusual or exotic place that you've worked? That would be in.

Personal Connection and Appreciation

Speaker 2

34:35

Ghana, west Africa. We went there to work in a clinic and in the meantime, built it up, had an incredible team there of Ghanaians. My third child was born there, nicholas, and we lived about, oh, two hours from the nearest gas station and we were one of the only folks with, of course, refrigerator or anything like that. We lived weeks without electricity. In the end it had a full operating theater. We had imported an ambulance from Japan, straight from battery, built from Nissan, and you know, I guess, the culture, the drilling the boreholes, the providing health care for those who couldn't afford it, having black mambas and living through malaria and typhoid fever, and you name it. I think that's the best answer for you and I cherish my time there, made very close friends and still keep up quite regularly.

Speaker 1

35:47

So it was very enriching Sounds good to me. I can't beat that. I can't top that one. I'm afraid it sounds good to me. Andrew, I just wanted to thank you for joining us and sharing your story, sharing information about your business as well. Insured Nomads with the remote work-life community will be looking out for changes to the website and updates and the progress that you're making. So thank you so much for being with us today.

Speaker 2

36:16

Thank you so much.