What if your work actually gave you energy back? That’s the thread we follow with Mary Alice Duff, a fractional COO who left a decade in social work, built a clothing brand the hard way, and now runs a profitable, remote-first practice from the south of France—without burning herself or her clients out. We talk about the real operations work founders rarely admit: pricing that quietly destroys margins, teams without clarity, and systems that leak time and money. Mary Alice opens her playbook for turning that mess into momentum.
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Meet Mary Alice In France
Alex Wilson-Campbell
0:00
Hey
everybody's
Alex
again
at
the
Remote
Work
Live
Podcast.
Today
I've
got
with
me
uh
Mary
Alice
Duff.
She
lives
in
the
south
of
France
with
her
husband,
daughter,
Dog
Kat.
A
move
that
they
made
quite
on
scene
four
years
ago
and
they've
never
looked
back.
If
you're
not
traveling
throughout
Southern
Europe
for
talking
to
a
good
book,
you'll
find
in
the
kitchen
cooking,
baking,
or
entertaining.
Work-wise
as
a
portfolio
careerist.
He's
a
partner
globally
remote
small
businesses
as
a
fractional
COO
and
transformation
partner.
He
runs
a
remote
coaching
program
for
new
fractional
operators
and
writes
about
the
messy,
joyful
reality
of
self-employment
and
small
business
through
a
newsletter,
op,
and
other
opinions.
These
days
he
tries
to
approach
both
work
and
life
with
a
spirit
of
joie
de
vive.
Curious,
playful,
and
full
of
possibility.
Probably
one
of
the
best
introductors
I've
ever
heard
on
this
podcast.
If
not
the
best.
Very
welcome,
Mary
Alice.
Thank
you
for
joining
me
today.
Mary Alice Duff
1:12
Thanks
for
having
me.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
1:14
Pleasure,
absolute
pleasure.
So
as
I
always
do,
can
you
just
begin
by
telling
me?
I
know
I've
given
a
little
bit
of
introduction
there,
but
give
me
a
bit
about
your
background
and
what
led
you
to
this
point.
Mary Alice Duff
1:27
Yeah,
sure.
From Social Work To Entrepreneurship
Mary Alice Duff
1:28
So
I
have
a
pretty
unconventional
background.
I
actually
started
my
career
in
social
work
and
community
organizing.
I
worked
in
the
nonprofit
sector,
I
don't
know,
10
years.
No,
I
actually
started
when
I
was
16
in
the
nonprofit
sector.
And
I
went
to
school
for
social
work,
and
I
thought
that
would
be
my
career,
you
know,
studying
social
change
and
law
and
social
policy.
And
I
did
that
for
a
while
and
I
really
enjoyed
it.
But
along
the
way,
I
realized
that
wasn't
the
life
I
wanted.
I
wanted
to
carve
out
something
for
myself.
So
I
made
a
very
sharp
right
turn
and
started
a
clothing
company.
And
I
ran
what
was
called
a
vertically
integrated
clothing
company.
So
we
designed,
cut,
sewed
everything
in-house
in
a
studio
in
Philadelphia,
and
we
shipped
it
to
customers
around
the
world.
Um,
and
that
was
awesome,
but
also
exhausting.
And
uh,
if
anybody
listening
works
in
fashion,
it
is
absolutely
brutal.
It's
hard
to
make
money,
margins
are
tight.
Um,
and
then
COVID
happened
and
I
started
working
remotely,
and
I
got
a
taste
of
working
remotely
and
fell
in
love
with
remote
work
and
realized
as
someone
who's
quite
introverted,
remote
work
suits
me
because
I
don't
have
to
do
as
much
peopleing.
So
I
don't
get
I
don't
get
fried
as
quickly
as
in-person
communication.
Um,
and
so
I
closed
my
clothing
business
and
I
pivoted
to
helping
other
small
business
owners
build
globally
remote
businesses.
Um
I
do
that
by
partnering
with
them
uh
to
increase
their
revenue,
focusing
on
profitability,
getting
their
team
in
alignment,
uh,
and
basically
running
businesses
that
are
joyful,
um,
that
don't
burn
themselves
out
or
their
teams
out
or
through
piles
of
cash.
Uh
so
that's
what
I
do
now.
And
then
I
coach
other
people
who
want
to
enter
fractional
work.
Uh,
there's
definitely
an
explosion
happening
in
the
fractional
space,
and
so
I
help
people
who
are
transitioning
from
full-time
employment
to
working
for
themselves.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
3:22
Sounds
good.
Sounds
great
to
me.
Um,
and
I'm
glad
you're
here
today
because
there's
a
lot
I
can
learn,
there's
a
lot
for
people
out
there
who
need
to
learn
and
want
to
learn
about
this
way
of
working.
Um
you've
got
different
layers
to
your
experience.
You've
got,
you
know,
you've
you've
walked
the
walked
the
talk.
Is
that
is
that
you've
walked
the
talk,
you've
you
know,
you've
had
your
business,
you've
set
up
it
was
an
e-commerce
business,
I
take
it
like
was
it
Shopify,
something
like
that?
Mary Alice Duff
3:51
Yep,
yeah,
something
like
that.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
3:53
And
now
you're
uh
as
well
as
that,
you're
not
just
done
done
the
sort
of
um
you've
had
been
in
the
trenches
on
that
side,
but
also
um
in
the
operational
side.
So
it's
there's
a
lot
to
learn.
But
um
what
I'm
intrigued
to
know
is
uh
I
want
to
dig
a
bit
deeper
into
your
business
and
tell
me
a
bit
more
about
the
business.
Mary Alice Duff
4:12
Yeah,
yeah.
So
uh
I
have
a
couple
of
different
revenue
streams.
The
primary
one
is
I
partner
with
these
small
businesses.
So
they
operate,
they've
been
remote
since
day
one.
Like
they've
never
had
an
office,
they
often
have
team
members
in
various
countries,
there's
often
multiple
languages
being
spoken.
Um,
and
we're
working
across
borders,
time
zones,
et
cetera.
Um,
my
bottom
line
for
who
I
work
with
is
they
have
to
have
a
phenomenal
product
or
service,
but
everything
else
is
a
bit
of
a
mess.
Um,
so
you
know,
people
don't
really
know,
uh,
they
don't
have
a
clear
job
description,
they
don't
know
what
they're
responsible
for,
what
they're
being
held
accountable
for.
Pivot To Remote And Fractional Work
Mary Alice Duff
4:48
Delivery
is
kind
of
inconsistent,
you
know,
they
don't
have
standard
operating
procedures.
Maybe
their
pricing
is
off.
So
um,
you
know,
they
might
be
doing
really
well,
but
they're
not
profitable.
Revenue
looks
good,
but
they're
actually
bleeding
money
every
month.
Maybe
they
don't
have
marketing
systems.
Um,
so
bottom
line
is
sub
5
million,
3
million
in
revenue,
uh,
as
small
as
500k
in
revenue.
Um,
they
have
a
globally
remote
team.
They
they've
never
even
considered
an
office.
Uh,
a
lot
of
the
companies
I
work
with
are
what
are
called
uh
experiential.
So
they're
offering
an
in-person
product
or
service.
It's
very
human-driven.
Um,
and
I
go
in
as
their
transformation
partner,
and
my
only
objective
is
to
make
their
business
more
profitable
uh
without
burning
through
their
team,
right?
I'm
like
anti-burnout,
I'm
people-centered,
um,
and
doing
it
in
a
way
that's
super
scrappy
and
sustainable.
So
I'm
never
gonna
suggest
a
fix
like
spend
20
grand
a
month
on
ads,
or
you
need
to
hire
this
shiny
marketing
consultant,
because
it's
all
about
uh
organic,
working
scrappily,
uh
working
sustainably,
things
that
these
businesses
can
actually
handle
because
they're
bootstrapped,
they
don't
have
investment
financing.
Um
so
that's
one
part
of
the
business.
I
can
take
three
clients
at
a
time.
Uh,
that
would
make
me
very,
very
busy.
Uh,
my
sweet
spot
is
two.
And
then
in
addition
to
that,
I
run
this
coaching
program.
So
it's
a
six-week
coaching
program.
Uh,
it's
people
who
are
transitioning
from
full-time
work
and
they
want
to
set
up
a
solo
fractional
uh
business
on
their
own.
So
they
want
to
do
the
consulting
work
that
I
do,
but
on
their
own.
But
they've
never
been
self-employed
before.
So,
how
do
they
define
their
offer,
their
positioning?
Where
do
they
find
clients?
How
do
they
price?
What
kind
of
tools
do
they
need
in
order
to
do
this?
How
do
they
protect
themselves?
All
those
things.
So,
together
over
the
course
of
six
weeks,
we
go
over
that.
At
the
end
of
the
six
weeks,
they're
ready
to
launch
a
fractional
practice
and
start
making
money
on
their
own,
working
from
wherever
they
choose.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
6:46
That
kind
of
uh
prompts
other
questions
that
I
probably
didn't
put
on
the
the
list
of
questions.
Speaker 3
6:51
That's
okay.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
6:52
You
know,
I
I
I
because
I'm
intrigued
now
because
that
you've
talked
you've
spoken
about
the
the
theoretical
things.
Have
you
got
like
a
the
first
the
the
um
the
sort
of
first
side
of
your
business?
Have
you
got
like
a
practical
example
of
you
don't
necessarily
have
to
name
the
client
if
you
don't
want
to,
but
have
you
got
a
practical
example
of
how
you've
how
you've
done
done
that?
Mary Alice Duff
7:12
Yeah,
yeah,
yeah.
So
I
have
a
client
right
now,
they're
in
the
retreat
space,
so
they
offer
um
retreats
to
individuals
who
want
to
escape
to
France.
And
uh
one
of
the
things
I'm
doing
for
them
is
the
it's
the
first
thing
I
do
when
working
with
a
client.
I
do
a
comprehensive
audit
of
their
business.
So
I'm
digging
into
all
their
financials,
I'm
digging
into
all
their
marketing
brand
and
sales
stuff,
I'm
digging
into
their
people.
Um
so
I'm
meeting
their
people,
I'm
getting
their
job
descriptions,
I'm
interviewing
them,
and
then
I'm
looking
at
all
their
systems.
So,
how
are
things
talking
to
each
other?
What
kind
of
tech
are
they
using?
Do
they
have
standard
processes
or
do
they
keep
repeating
themselves?
Um,
so
for
example,
first
thing
I
notice
in
this
audit
is
their
pricing
is
too
low.
So
every
retreat
they're
actually
selling
is
actually
making
the
business
worse.
Um,
and
a
lot
of
times,
you
know,
especially
new
business
owners,
they
don't
come
from
a
business
background.
They
have
a
passion
for
the
service
that
they're
offering,
right?
So
whether
it's
food
tours
or
um,
you
know,
some
hospitality
experience,
or
uh,
you
know,
my
husband
does
edtech,
he
does
STEM
activities
with
kids.
They're
coming
at
it
from
the
background
of
they're
providing
an
experience
that
they're
excited
about,
that
they
want
to
get
their
clients
excited
about.
And
they
just
see,
oh,
Who She Helps And How
Mary Alice Duff
8:27
okay,
I've
priced
it.
I,
you
know,
I
make
I
make
more
money
than
it
costs.
That's
good,
right?
And
it's
like,
you
need
to
make
way
more
money
than
it
costs
because
you're
talking
about
your
operating
expenses.
What
are
operating
expenses?
Okay,
that
website
you
have,
the
marketing
for
the
website,
the
accountant
that
you
pay
every
month
to
make
sure
all
your
numbers
look
good,
all
those
subscriptions
you
have,
and
then
you
have
to
pay
yourself
a
salary,
and
then
you
still
need
to
be
profitable.
And
then
after
all
that,
maybe
you
have
debt
payments
and
you
have
to
pay
the
ban,
you
know,
you've
got
taxes.
So,
so
often
with
these
small
business
owners,
one
of
the
first
things
I
come
in
is
I
look
at
their
numbers
first.
Because
if
the
numbers
aren't
right,
nothing
in
the
business
is
going
to
be
right.
No
volume
of
uh
great
content
or
viral
marketing
or
that
super
special
hire
is
gonna
fix
the
business
if
their
numbers
aren't
right.
And
it's
not
like
a
software
company
where
we
just
have
to
get
to
scale
and
then
it's
gonna
sort
all
of
our
problems.
No,
because
everything
you
add
is
another
person
who
has
to
deliver
the
experience.
Um,
so
that's
just
one
way
I
work
with
my
clients.
I
start
with
this
audit
and
then
I
start
identifying,
okay,
where
are
our
quick
wins
here?
We
need
to
increase
the
price
by
500,
you
know,
per
experience.
There
we
go.
We're
gonna
do
that
our
next
launch.
We
need
to
tighten
up
these
job
descriptions
and
make
sure
this
person
is
doing
that
and
this
person
is
doing
that,
playing
to
their
strengths.
Great.
We
need
to
actually
have
a
marketing
system
that
is
doable,
repeatable,
and
consistent.
None
of
this,
oh,
I'll
just
post
to
Instagram,
whenever.
No.
You
need
to
have
consistency.
And
we
need
to
make
sure
all
of
our
operations
are
tight,
our
systems
are
talking
to
each
other.
If
we
have
standard
operating
procedures,
they're
documented
so
people
aren't
making
stuff
up
on
the
fly
and
wasting
time.
Um,
so
that's
how
I
start
with
a
client.
Once
we
get
through
that
audit,
I
see
as
a
fractional
COO
where's
the
best
places
for
me
to
plug
in,
where
do
I
need
to
hire
contractors?
Um,
they
work
with
me
on
a
monthly
retainer,
and
then
we
work
together
from
anywhere
from
three
months
to
24
months.
And
again,
my
only
objective
is
to
make
their
business
more
profitable.
Um,
that's
it.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
10:27
Sounds
good.
And
it
in
in
a
sense,
I
can
see
now
why
you
you've
got
the
other
side
to
the
business,
which
is
the
um
helping
people
to
understand
how
they
can
become
fractionals
themselves
and
all
the
different
steps
and
all
the
different
um
aspects
that
they
need
to
consider
when
setting
up.
So
again,
tell
me
um
is
is
there
an
uh
is
there
a
case
study
or
an
example
of
that
you
can
you
can
give?
Because
this
side
that's
idea
of
business
is
focused
on
the
experiential.
Is
the
fractional
coaching
just
experiential
people
or
is
it
just
anybody
who
wants
to
be
a
fractional?
Mary Alice Duff
11:02
It's
anybody
who
wants
to
be
a
fractional,
but
I
really
do
tend
to
attract
people
in
operations,
HR,
basically
non-marketing
people.
Marketing
fractionals
are
pretty
good
at
figuring
out
how
to
do
this,
right?
They
know
how
to
sell.
That's
what
they
do,
right?
It's
the
people
who
are
transitioning
from
a
chief
operating
officer
role
at
a
company
or
a
chief
uh
people
officer
or
head
of
HR
who
could
definitely
monetize
their
skills
as
a
self-employed
person,
but
they
just
have
no
idea
how
to
make
that
happen
because
they've
probably
one
never
even
considered
self-employment.
Um,
and
if
they've
had,
they
just
kind
of
feel
overwhelmed
about
it.
And
lastly,
they're
just
not
natural
marketers.
They're
the
kind
of
people
who
just
want
to
get
on
with
the
work.
Like
my
client
always
says
to
me,
I
just
want
to
do
good
work.
That's
it.
And
I'm
like,
yeah,
but
what's
that
mean?
Alex Wilson-Campbell
11:52
Yeah.
Mary Alice Duff
11:53
But
like
if
nobody
knows
you're
doing
good
work,
yeah,
you're
not
gonna
get
booked.
Right?
So
you
have
to
be
able
to
figure
out
how
to
talk
about
your
work
in
a
way
that
gets
you
clients.
Um,
so
I
just
had
my
first
cohort,
we
actually
finish
on
Monday,
uh,
really
excited
about
it.
And,
you
know,
really
the
big
takeaway
for
them
is
they
all
have
ironed
out
their
positioning.
They
know
what
their
offer
is,
they
know
how
they're
pricing
themselves.
Every
single
one
of
them
was
underpriced
by
about
60%
Inside The Business Audit
Mary Alice Duff
12:21
when
they
came
into
the
program,
which
again,
super
duper
normal.
Like
when
I
first
took
fractional
clients,
I
was
charging
so
it's
an
embarrassingly
small
amount.
Um,
and
wondered
why
I
was
stuck
in
like
never
feeling
like
I
had
enough
and
working
way
too
many
hours.
Now
I
know.
Now
I
know
what
I
need
to
charge
for
it
to
be
a
sustainable
business
and
what
is
reflective
of
what
I
bring
to
the
business,
right?
Um,
but
yeah,
they
all
raise
their
prices,
they
have
a
positioning
statement.
We
taught,
uh,
we
taught
them
how
to
develop
an
actual
pipeline.
So
these
are
the
people
you're
reaching
out
to.
This
is
why
you're
reaching
out.
How
do
you
write
cold
emails
that
actually
get
opened?
How
do
you
have
a
discovery
call?
How
do
you
write
a
proposal?
How
do
you
get
paid
for
your
work?
So
step
by
step
by
step,
now
every
single
one
of
them
knows
exactly
how
to
launch
and
run
their
fractional
business.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
13:09
It's
amazing.
And
uh
no,
seriously,
it's
um
because
like
you
said,
I
think
um
it
there's
so
many
complexities
and
intricacies
um
to
setting
for
business.
I'm
speaking
like
I'm
not
an
expert
myself,
but
you're
the
expert
in
terms
of
that.
So
uh,
you
know,
I
I
know
uh
you
know
some
people
just
actually
fear
doing
it.
So
having
someone
who
uh
like
you
can
be
be
there
with
them,
especially
working
uh
remotely.
Yeah,
um
you
when
you're
considering
something
like
this,
or
if
you're
actually
doing
it
and
perhaps
not
doing
it
to
the
level
that
you
want
to
do
it,
it
can
sometimes
get
quite
it
can
get
quite
isolating,
can't
it?
And
you
you
you
kind
of
uh
as
well
as
asking
chat
GPT,
you're
wondering
else
who
else
you
can
ask
who
knows
what
they're
what
they're
doing.
So
somebody
like
you
sort
of
you
know
gold.
But
um
what
what
inspired
you
to
to
start
this
type
of
business
in
a
location?
I
know
you
kind
of
hinted
at
it,
but
in
a
location-independent
sort
of
way.
Mary Alice Duff
14:13
Yeah,
so
the
coaching
practice
or
the
my
fractional
COO
work
or
both?
Alex Wilson-Campbell
14:19
Oh
both,
really,
yeah.
Yeah,
both.
Mary Alice Duff
14:21
Yeah,
so
um
I
got
a
taste
of
remote
work
during
COVID
and
realized
how
much
better
it
was
for
my
brain.
I
was
able
to
think
clearer,
I
wasn't
exhausted
at
the
end
of
the
day,
I
just
felt
energized.
And
um
one
night,
and
this
was
when
I
lived
in
the
United
States,
um,
one
night
um
my
husband
and
I
were
chatting
and
we
just
were
kind
of
joking.
If
you
could
live
anywhere
in
the
world,
where
would
you
live?
And
we
both
said,
the
south
of
France,
ha
ha
ha.
And
it
was
a
joke.
Like
it
wasn't
a
thing.
And
I
was
like,
wait
a
minute,
could
we
sell
this?
And
so,
you
know,
you
give
me
a
good
idea,
I'm
gonna
go
chase
it
down.
And
so
I
started
Googling,
and
lo
and
behold,
you
can,
if
you
are
a
self-employed
person,
get
a
visa
to
come
to
France
and
start
a
business.
So
I
knew
that
I
was
never
gonna
find
my
clients
like
physically
in
France.
Like,
I'm
not
gonna
go
walk
into
somebody's
business
in
France.
They
they
actually
have
kind
of
an
old
school
traditional
approach
to
employment,
and
so
the
whole
fractional
thing
hasn't
really
landed
here
amongst
French
people.
So
I
knew
I
needed
to
build
a
location-independent
business.
One,
I
knew
I
wanted
to
work
remotely.
I
was
never
going
into
an
office
ever
again.
Um,
and
two,
that
it
just
wasn't
a
fit
for
the
typical
French
company.
But
what
I
found
was
how
many
English
speakers
have
businesses
in
Europe
that
are
remote,
whether
they're
in
France
or
the
UK
or
Spain
or
Portugal
or
wherever.
Um,
and
that's
how
I
was
able
to
build.
I
was
posting
on
LinkedIn,
posting
on
socials,
meeting
people
online,
telling
them
about
how
I
work,
what
I
offer,
and
I
got
my
first
client
that
way.
Uh,
and
then
that
snowballed
into
another,
into
another.
Um,
but
honestly,
uh
building
a
location
independent
business
was
the
best
thing
I
ever
did.
Um,
there's
no
amount
of
money
you
could
pay
me
to
get
back
into
an
office.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
16:08
I
hear
that
a
lot
these
days.
Mary Alice Duff
16:10
There's
none.
Like
there's
no
number.
Um,
and
I'm
dead
serious.
Um,
yeah,
I
just
it's
the
best
thing
for
my
brain,
it's
the
best
thing
for
my
health,
it's
the
best
thing
for
my
family.
Um
I
can
travel
when
I
want,
I
can
work
when
I
want.
Um,
it's
absolutely
the
best
choice
for
me.
Uh,
and
it
works
for
my
clients
too.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
16:29
Right,
I
love
hearing
this.
And
uh
no,
it's
because
like
I
said,
uh
I've
kind
of
slowed
down
on
doing
the
interview,
so
it's
kind
of
uh
gives
me
gives
me
energy
hearing
all
of
this.
Um
so
another
question
I
wanted
to
ask
Pricing, Profit, And Quick Wins
Alex Wilson-Campbell
16:41
is
um
you
talk
about
um
your
skills,
um,
e-commerce,
um
uh
helping
people
with
on
the
coaching
side,
the
operational
side,
and
the
coach,
you
know,
some
people
along
the
way,
you
uh
if
you're
thinking
about
doing
something
like
this,
you're
gonna
have
to
do
some
sort
of
like
self
self-audit,
you
know,
in
terms
of
what
what
you're
good
at,
you
know,
not
just
the
soft
but
the
hard
skills.
Speaker 3
17:07
Yeah,
yeah.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
17:08
You
know,
how
did
you
go
about
that?
Is
that
something
that
well,
I'm
assuming
that's
something
that
you
did,
but
it's
it
was
somebody
did
somebody
say
to
you,
Mary
Allice,
you
know
what,
you
should
do
this,
or
did
you
did
you
think
let
me
do
it?
Mary Alice Duff
17:21
So
the
last
job
I
had
before
I
became
um
an
entrepreneur
was
I
was
a
chief
of
staff.
And
so
a
chief
of
staff
is
a
super
cool
job.
It's
the
right
hand
of
a
CEO
in
a
company,
um,
and
they
get
to
touch
every
part
of
the
business.
And
it's
really
great
for
people
whose
brains
get
bored,
who
are
very
curious,
who
like
to
draw
connections
between
things,
um,
who
are
good
communicators,
it
can
be
very
convincing.
Um,
and
they
just
crack
on,
they
just
get
shit
done.
That's
just
like
that's
a
typical
chief
of
staff,
right?
Um,
and
I
realized
how
much
I
liked
connecting
the
dots,
building,
and
not
doing
the
same
thing
every
day.
Um,
and
that's
how
I
learned
everything
about
operations,
finance,
fundraising,
marketing,
because
I
was
in
this
position
that
forced
me
to
work
with
everybody.
I
wasn't,
I
didn't
get
to
be
like
just
hide
in
my
silo,
right?
I
had
to
work
with
everybody,
the
HR
department,
the
fine,
the
CFO,
whomever.
Um,
so
then
when
I
went
out
and
started
my
own
company,
um,
you
know,
being
the
chief
of
staff
at
a
nonprofit
is
wildly
different
than
going
out
and
starting
your
own
clothing
business,
right?
Um,
but
the
beauty
of
starting
something
is
you
don't
know
what
you
don't
know.
So
you
go
in
thinking,
all
right,
you
know,
I've
got
these
skills,
I've
got
that,
and
then
you
actually
start
doing
it
and
you're
like,
shit,
I
don't
know
anything.
Uh
so
I
joke
that
everything
I
learned
about
small
business
finance,
I
learned
by
spending
and
losing
my
own
money.
Like
every
mistake
I
made,
I
learned
the
hard
way,
you
know?
And
so
when
I
have
my
clients
and
I'm
looking
at
their
financials,
I'm
like,
I'm
telling
you
you
need
to
raise
this
price,
not
because
like
we
just
want
to
put
more
money
in
our
pockets,
because
I
want
your
business
to
survive
because
mine's
in
it,
because
I
wouldn't
raise
my
prices,
right?
Like
I'm
trying
to
save
you
from
yourself.
Let
me
help
you.
Um
but
yeah,
I
don't
know
if
there's
so
much
of
self-audit.
There's
to
get
on
with
the
work
and
you
have
to
do
things,
and
as
you're
doing
them,
you
realize
I'm
really
great
at
this,
or
I'm
really
struggling.
Let
me
call
in
some
help.
Let
me
find
somebody
to
consult,
uh,
somebody
who
can
train
me.
Can
I
t
teach
myself
this
skill,
whatever
it
is?
But
so
much
of
business
development
and
entrepreneurship
is
it's
like
this
constant
self-development
loop,
this
constant
personal
development
loop
of
trying,
failing,
learning,
trying,
failing,
learning
over
and
over
and
over
again.
Um
yeah,
it
doesn't
mean
you're
ever
gonna
be
good
at
anything
at
everything,
but
you
you
do
get
to
figure
out,
okay,
where
are
my
strengths,
where
should
I
be
spending
my
time
versus
where
do
I
need
support,
you
know?
Alex Wilson-Campbell
19:53
Yes,
uh
uh,
definitely.
And
um
I
think
to
do
the
kind
of
work
that
you're
doing,
um
You
have
to
have
that
entrepreneurial
mindset,
don't
you?
Um
people
say
it
it
sounds
a
bit
cliche
like
you
shouldn't
have
a
fear
of
failure,
but
I
think
that
that
that's
something
that
I
guess
a
lot
of
people
will
will
have
in
the
back
end
of
the
mind
that
nobody
wants
to
fail,
do
they?
They
want
they
want
people
they
want
to
be
successful.
Um
that
was
actually
leading
me
somewhere,
but
I
can't
remember
what
what
line
I
was
going
down.
But
in
terms
of
how
did
you
sort
of
like
then
stack
stack
things
up?
From
chief
of
you've
gone
from
chief
of
staff,
and
now
you've
got
you've
got
this
uh
this
um
stack
of
skills
that
you've
that
you've
built
up.
Um
how
do
you
go
from
that
to
then
business
knowing
that
people
need
need
you
and
then
onto
targeting
those
people
and
finding
those
clients?
Mary Alice Duff
20:56
So
honestly,
I
I
have
found
to
be
the
most
incredible
resource
uh
for
me
and
my
small
business.
So
I
don't
use
any
other
social
platforms
anymore.
Like
I
gave
them
all
up
maybe
five
years
ago,
four
years
ago.
Uh
was
it
three
years
ago?
It's
it's
been
liberating,
to
be
quite
honest.
Um,
and
so
I'm
consistently
posting
useful
content
on
LinkedIn,
uh,
you
know,
having
a
really
tight
profile
that
showcases
what
I
do,
who
I
work
with,
and
all
my
past
clients.
Coaching New Fractional Operators
Mary Alice Duff
21:24
Um
I
talk
about
how
I
can
help
other
businesses,
but
more
than
anything,
I'm
just
a
human
that
people
want
to
get
to
know.
And
I
take
their
coffee
chats,
like
I
answer
my
DMs,
I
give
my
time
when
I'm
not
getting
paid
for
it.
Like
I
genuinely
believe,
like
just
keep
talking
to
people.
Um,
and
then
I
send
really
great
cold
emails,
if
I'm
being
honest.
Um,
I
have
multiple
clients
who
have
I
booked
who
don't
use
because
I
sent
a
great
cold
with
a
great
subject
line.
Um,
and
so
that's
kind
of
how
I
start
talking
to
clients.
So
I
I
I
genuinely
say,
I
think
your
business
is
awesome.
Here's
how
I
can
help.
I
help
such
and
such
client
do
this
thing,
very
similar
space.
Would
you
be
up
for
a
chat
to
see
how
I
can
lend
a
hand?
And
people
genuinely
like
say
yeah.
And
we
have
a
conversation
and
I
see
if
I
can
offer
them
my
service.
Sometimes
it's
not
a
good
fit.
Sometimes
I'm
like,
hey,
you
can't
afford
me
right
now,
but
here's
the
five
things
I
would
do
in
your
business
tomorrow.
I'd
set
up
your,
you
know,
your
capture
and
improve
your
marketing
so
that
you're
actually
building
and
nurturing
your
relationship,
right?
I'll
offer
them
free
advice
or
whatever.
And
then
six
months
later,
they
might
come
back
to
me
and
say,
hey,
business
is
doing
great.
We
could
actually
afford
you
now
and
we
could
use
your
help.
Um,
so
that's
been
invaluable
for
me.
Just
relationships,
talking
to
people
online,
connecting.
is
how
I
do
that,
and
email.
Um,
yeah,
and
I'm
just
always
open
to
a
chat,
genuinely.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
22:51
I
think
some
people
struggle
with
the
idea
that
um,
you
know,
you
can
use
for
that.
So
from
crossing
the
the
boundary
or
the
bridge
of
sort
of
sending
a
message
to
then
translating
that
message
into
a
conversation,
that
conversation
into
uh
you
know
uh
into
um
sort
of
what
you're
doing
in
terms
of
business.
Do
you
have
a
sort
of
like
uh
a
system
that
you
use
to
do
that?
Or
is
it
is
it
is
it
just
like
you
said,
it's
human
connection.
Speaker 3
23:22
It's
human
connection.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
23:24
Yeah,
yeah.
Another
question
on
top
of
that
is
obviously
the
like
you
said,
is
a
great
I
you
know,
I
spend
most
of
my
time
on
LinkedIn.
There
are
so
many
businesses,
so
many
people.
You
mentioned
your
sort
of
like
um
avatar,
as
it
were,
in
terms
of
type
of
business
that
you've
that
you
sort
of
um
um
approach,
but
how
do
you
know
that
they
need
your
help?
For
example.
Mary Alice Duff
23:47
So
that's
the
tricky
thing.
So
this
is
the
tricky
thing
about
operation.
So
if
you
are
a
fractional
chief
marketing
officer,
for
example,
you
can
go
on
their
website,
you
can
go
on
their
social,
you
can
sign
up
for
their
marketing,
and
within
an
hour,
you're
like,
this
sucks,
your
social
sucks,
your
website
isn't
optimized,
and
you
can
genuinely
offer
suggestions.
Speaker 2
24:06
Right.
Mary Alice Duff
24:07
When
you're
doing
the
work
I'm
doing,
it's
the
kind
of
work
that
founders
don't
talk
about.
They're
embarrassed
that
their
products
aren't
profitable,
they're
embarrassed
that
their
team
members
aren't
being
paid
properly
or
don't
have
job
descriptions,
or
they,
God
forbid,
but
I
hear
this
all
the
time,
aren't
really
sure
what
their
team
is
doing
all
day.
I'm
like,
you're
and
it's
not
that
the
team
is
jerking
them
around.
It's
almost
never
that.
It's
just
genuinely
shitty
communication,
you
know?
Um,
it's
all
the
stuff
they're
embarrassed
to
admit
is
not
working
in
their
business,
but
also
it's
so
normal.
It's
so
normal.
I
have
yet
to
meet
a
small
business
owner
who
has
it
all
together.
It's
always
a
mess.
My
business
was
a
mess.
It's
always
a
mess,
right?
And
so
that
becomes
the
tricky
bit
is
that
I
don't
know
what
help
they
need.
And
that's
why
I
don't
have
like
a
lot
of
uh
consultants
or
fractional
people
have
an
offer.
It's
like
a
fixed
offer.
I
do
X,
Y,
and
Z.
Because
the
work
I
do
is
so
customized,
because
every
business
is
gonna
have
different
issues.
I
don't
have
a
fixed
offer.
I
just
want
to
get
people
on
the
phone
or
on
a
uh
a
Zoom
or
a
Why Location Independence
Mary Alice Duff
25:16
Meet
that
I
can
talk
to
them
and
learn
about
their
business.
Um
my
best
clients
are
the
ones
who
just
spill
their
guts
in
that
first
call.
You
know,
and
I
I
was
just
on
a
call
the
other
day.
She
pulled
up
her
QuickBooks
and
she
was
like,
look
at
this,
showing
me
her
accounting.
And
I
was
like,
All
right,
we
got
work
to
do.
But
like,
that's
the
kind
of
founder
I
love
who
is
just
so
self-aware
that
they
don't
know
what
they
don't
know
and
they've
reached
a
point
where
they
need
help.
Um,
but
the
only
way
I
know
that
is
if
I
have
real
conversations
because
founders
aren't
just
going
to
fork
over
that
information.
It's
embarrassing,
it's
vulnerable.
So
they
need
to
feel
like
they
can
trust
me.
And
that
is
what
my
online
persona,
if
you
will,
I
think
it
engenders
trust
because
I'm
vulnerable,
I
tell
it
like
it
is,
I'm
very
direct.
So
people
feel
that
they
can
be
that
way
with
me.
I
hope.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
26:05
Yeah,
and
I
I
can
just
see
why,
you
know,
the
charisma
that
you
have
as
well
is
like
once
some
somebody
sort
of
gets
talking
to
you,
I'm
sure
that
sort
of
that
that
messaging
that
you
have,
that
that
sort
of
natural
net
about
yourself
um
comes
across
in
not
just
in
your
sort
of
written
messages,
but
then
in
your
meetings,
you
know.
Um
not
just
that,
but
you
I
just
feel
that
you
have
like
um
a
real
sort
of
this
is
this
is
who
you
are.
It's
like
this
is
you,
this
is
where
you
want
to
be,
sort
of
thing.
Speaker 3
26:35
Yeah,
yeah.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
26:36
And
that
you've
actually
worked
out
what
a
lot
of
people
are
trying
to
do
is
you
know,
where
where's
where
do
I
fit?
You
know,
you
know.
But
I
mean,
I'm
sure
you've
had
you
mentioned
some
challenges
that
you
mentioned
the
early
on,
and
you
mentioned
the
the
money
side
of
things.
Um
what
uh
were
there
any
particular
challenges
that
stand
out
for
you
when
you're
sort
of
in
the
early
phases
of
setting
up?
Mary Alice Duff
26:59
Yeah,
so
in
the
early
stages
of
my
fractional
practice,
uh
I
just
wasn't
charging
enough.
Um,
I
wasn't
owning
the
engagement,
I
was
treating
those
engagements
as
if
it
was
some
sort
of
pseudo-employee-employer
relationship.
And
instead
of
me
being
the
subject
matter
expert,
coming
in
and
providing
a
service
to
another
business,
right?
Um,
and
so
oftentimes
it
just
set
up
like
a
weird
power
dynamic.
I
wasn't
charging
enough.
Um,
and
then
I
would
give
up
on
my
pipeline.
So
when
I
would
be
booked
and
busy,
right,
I
would
not
be
nurturing
my
pipeline.
And
so
what
that
does
is
it
prevents
you
from
being
able
to
walk
away
from
a
bad
engagement
because
you
don't
have
a
potential
client
on
the
back
burner.
And
I
see
this
constantly
with
so
like
self-employed
people,
freelancers,
fractionals,
what
have
you,
is
they
accept
too
low
pay,
bad
relationships,
poor
treatment
because
they
have
stopped
nurturing
their
business.
They
don't
have
a
pipeline,
they
stopped
posting
on
LinkedIn.
Oh,
I
got
really
busy.
Sure,
but
now
you're
stuck
because
you
can't
walk
away,
because
you
don't
have
a
plan
B.
Um,
and
I
that
was
my
biggest
trap.
And
I
went
six
months
without
a
client
when
I
finally
decided
to
walk
away
from
a
client
engagement.
I
went
six
months.
Thankfully,
I
had
saved
up
enough
money
because
I
knew
I
was
leaving,
but
my
biggest
regret
was
I
took
my
foot
off
the
gas
in
terms
of
pipeline
development
and
nurturing
my
people.
So
now
I'm
booked
and
busy,
but
I
am
still
posting
on
three,
four
times
a
week.
I'm
still
in
DMs,
I
still
take
coffee
chats,
I
still
talk
to
people
because
you
never
know.
You
never
know
when
a
client
relationship
just
isn't
working
out
anymore,
or
the
business
could
decide
to
sell,
or
any
number
of
things
can
happen.
But
as
a
self-employed
person,
you
need
to
be
prepared.
And
the
first
thing
that
you
should
always
be
working
on
is
your
own
business,
not
your
client
work,
your
own
work,
your
business.
Um,
so
that
way
you
protect
yourself
and
you
can
stay
in
the
game
for
the
long
haul.
Um,
so
biggest
mistake,
lesson
learned,
never
again.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
29:14
Yeah,
I
I've
I've
experienced
that
myself
where
I
was
Skills, Self-Discovery, And Operations
Alex Wilson-Campbell
29:18
probably
on
the
other
side,
I
was
a
bit
more
I
was
a
bit
too
reliant
on
a
particular
client
and
perhaps
took
my
my
foot
off
the
gas
in
terms
of
the
the
pipeline,
and
then
I
got
stung
myself
because
that
client
then
started
to
freeze
their
hiring
and
slow
it
down,
and
then
all
of
a
sudden
wasn't
as
much
money
coming
in,
and
then
the
panic
set
in
a
little.
Mary Alice Duff
29:40
Yeah,
it
happens
all
the
time.
It
happens
all
the
time,
all
the
time,
constantly,
you
know.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
29:46
And
when
I
look
at
look
at
your
profile,
because
obviously
the
the
the
the
S
word
that
everybody
sort
of
uh
doesn't
like
when
it
comes
to
business
sales.
Um
I
think
sales,
business
development,
that's
that's
an
integral
integral
part
of
setting
up
any
business.
Um
and
when
I
look
at
your
profile,
I
don't
really
see
obvious
signs
that
you
uh
have
done
like
marketing,
obviously,
and
you're
obviously
a
people's
person,
as
much
as
you
say,
in
fact,
I'm
an
introvert
myself,
but
you
have
a
very
sort
of
like
um
you're
very
much
a
people's
person
and
somebody
who
can
can
connect
with
people
very
easily,
I
feel.
Um
what
where
does
the
sort
of
the
because
you're
talking
about
pipelines
as
well,
and
that's
a
sales
sort
of
keyword.
Where
did
you
learn
all
that?
Where
did
all
that
come
from?
Mary Alice Duff
30:41
Uh
I
again
I
think
this
is
one
of
those
instances
of
you
don't
know
what
you
don't
know.
And
I
didn't
learn
about
sales
or
pipeline
development
when
I
had
my
e-commerce
business
because
there
are
no
sales.
It's
marketing,
it's
a
funnel,
right?
You
have
your
top
of
funnel,
middle
funnel,
bottom
funnel,
marketing
social.
Like
I
learned
that
shit
inside
and
out.
So
when
I
started
my
fractional
practice,
I
was
at
a
total
deficit.
I
knew
nothing
about
sales,
nothing
about
pipeline
development.
And
it
really
was
just
like
a
journey
of
teaching
myself
everything
I
could
possibly
learn.
You
know,
and
I
tried
all
of
the
different
tools,
the
CRMs
and
you
know,
some
guy,
you
know,
telling
me
buy
this
course.
Like
I
tried.
None
of
it
worked
for
me.
You
know
what
works
for
me?
A
freaking
Sheet.
I
have
a
sheet
of
all
these
super
cool
companies
that
I
would
just
absolutely
love
to
work
with.
I
have
their
address,
I
rate
them
on
a
scale
of
cold,
warm,
or
hot.
I
reach
out
to
them
on
LinkedIn,
connect
with
them,
send
them
an
email.
That's
my
CRM.
It's
you're
not
very
sexy.
I
don't
care,
it
works.
Um,
and
that
I
learned
everything
about
pipeline
development
and
sales
because
I
was
so
shit
at
it.
And
I
realized
like,
I
need
to
figure
out
because
like
what
we're
doing
right
now,
I'm
good
at.
I'm
good
at
talking
to
people.
Yeah,
that
isn't
the
issue.
Having
the
sales
call,
closing
the
deal
was
never
the
issue
because
I
come
to
a
sales
meeting
and
I
put
sales
in
air
quotes
because
I
don't
even
think
of
it
as
sales.
How
can
I
help?
How
can
I
help
this
person?
Right?
I'll
help
them
right
there
in
the
call,
right?
But
getting
to
that
point
felt
so
mysterious
to
me.
So
I
just
taught
myself
everything
I
possibly
could
about
building
a
pipeline,
getting
people
on
the
phone.
Um,
and
also
had
a
really
great
client
who
um,
one
of
the
co-founders
is
like
a
sales
genius,
and
I
would
just
ask
him
a
million
questions.
So
the
really
cool
thing
about
my
work
is
that
I'm
constantly
learning
from
people
smarter
than
me,
like
my
own
clients
who
have
gotten
really
good
at
a
specific
thing.
So
I've
just
basically
been
picking
his
brain
about
like
sales-related
stuff,
and
then
I'd
apply
them
to
my
own
little
itty-bitty
professional
practice.
Um,
but
yeah,
I've
gotten
pretty
good
at
it.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
32:48
Sounds
that
way.
Yeah.
Mary Alice Duff
32:51
All
way
through
trial
and
error.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
32:54
You're
right
though.
I
mean,
sales
is
is
is
about
like
a
a
natural
way
of
finding
a
natural
way
of
connecting.
I
think
it's
changed
quite
a
lot.
The
yeah,
sales
before
used
to,
I
think,
used
to
be
a
bit
more
about
the
hard
sell
and
sort
of
like
hitting
the
phones
and
um
you
know
going
through,
you
know,
um
making
150
cold
calls
each
day.
Um
whereas
yeah,
I
you
you
remind
me
of
somebody
else,
actually.
Somebody
my
one
of
my
former
bosses
Finding Clients With LinkedIn And Email
Alex Wilson-Campbell
33:24
actually,
he
um
business
owner,
he
has
a
very
similar
sort
of
principle
to
you
in
the
sense
that
it's
about
uh
connecting
with
people
based
on
you
know
values,
but
you
know,
based
on
having
an
interest.
You
mentioned
working
with
experiential
businesses.
That
must
be
something
that's
come
from
uh
you
know
your
your
your
you
know
uh
passion
for
one
you
know
wanting
to
work
for
those
sorts
of
businesses.
So
yeah,
I
I
definitely
like
that
sort
of
um
that
that
that
principle.
Speaker 3
33:52
Yeah.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
33:52
Um
one
thing
you
were
talking
about,
okay.
So
there's
it
sounds
like
you're
you
I
don't
know
if
I'm
correct
in
saying
this,
but
uh
you
you
not
systematic
from
a
robotic
point
of
view,
but
I
get
the
feeling
that
you're
very
um
sort
of
like
organized
in
in
what
you
do,
um
in
the
in
the
business
sense.
I
mean
like
sort
of
you
you
you
sort
your
pipeline
out,
you
do
yeah,
I'm
not
saying
necessarily
in
a
methodical
way,
but
you
know
what
you
have
to
do
in
order
to
sort
of
get
from
point
A
to
point
Z.
Um
and
how
do
you
then
stay,
how
do
you
keep
productive?
Because
there's
so
many
for
me,
as
especially
as
a
parent,
I've
got
three
children,
um
work
from
home,
you
know,
work
from
different,
not
just
from
home,
but
from
different
places,
and
there
are
a
lot
of
distractions
as
well
to
that.
And
there's
you
know,
how
do
you
stay
productive
in
your
day?
Mary Alice Duff
34:46
Um,
you
know,
I've
never,
I
will
say
I'm
quite
a
disciplined
person.
Um,
I
am
extremely
goal-oriented.
If
I
want
something,
if
it's
a
financial
target
or
a
personal
goal,
like
I
am
just
that
kind
of
person
who's
just
gonna
go
for
it.
Um,
I'm
annoying
in
that
way,
like
6
a.m.
I'm
up,
I'm
working
out,
like
I'm
taking
kicking
ass
and
taking
names.
I
am
just
a
bit
wired
like
that.
Um
but
I
will
say
one
thing
that's
been
really
helpful
is
taking
that
first
part
of
my
day,
like
when
I
do
sit
down
to
do
work
and
focusing
exclusively
on
my
business.
So
I
don't
start
my
client
work
until
about
like
10,
10,
15,
but
I
start
my
work
day
around
8,
8,
15.
Um
and
so
that
ensures
that
my
business
is
getting
the
attention
it
deserves
every
day.
It's
never
like
being
pushed
to
the
back
burner.
Um,
also,
quite
frankly,
I
am
a
foreigner.
I'm
an
immigrant
living
in
a
country
who
could
decide
at
any
time
to
say,
no,
thank
you.
You
can
go
now.
Um,
and
so
the
more
successful
my
business
is,
the
more
likely
they
are
to
allow
me
to
stay,
and
the
more
likely
I
could
attain
French
citizenship,
which
then
means
I
have
freedom
of
mobility
all
throughout
the
European
Union.
That's
a
hell
of
a
motivator.
Yes,
you
are
kicking
me
out.
Like
I'm
staying
here.
Um
then
thirdly,
thirdly,
I
love
money.
I
mean,
I'm
just
gonna
be
out
with
it.
Like
I
I
have
a
family
to
support.
I
don't
come
from
wealth,
I
have
I
have
no
backup
plan.
There's
nobody
back
in
the
United
States
who
could
send
me
a
check
if
I
was
in
a
pinch.
It
is
just
me.
Um,
you
know,
I'm
married,
I've
got
an
11-year-old
daughter,
um,
and
I
just
am
absolutely
hellbent
on
helping
her
build
generational
wealth
so
she
has
access
to
the
opportunities
that
I
just
didn't
have.
Um,
so
yeah,
I
guess
those
those
three
things
keep
me
pretty
uh
on
it,
you
know,
I
don't
feel
like
sending
that
cold
today.
And
I'm
like,
do
I
hate
cold
emails
more
than
I
love
money?
Yeah.
I'm
sending
the
cold
email.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
36:53
I
hear
you,
I
hear
you.
So
you
were
taught,
you
you
gave
us
quite
a
little
bit
of
a
sort
of
a
hint
in
terms
of
your
your
calendar.
So
no,
it's
not
your
daily
sort
of
uh
schedule.
Um
you
so
do
you
you'll
get
you're
working
out
at
6
a.m.?
Is
that
and
then
you're
sort
of
like
you
get
into
8
a.m.
You
get
into
sort
of
your
you
mentioned
your
business
work,
and
then
how
does
that
look?
How
does
that
day
look
for
you?
Mary Alice Duff
37:19
So
I'm
up
at
6,
and
then
I
take
my
daughter
to
school.
Uh
I
ride
her
on
my
bike
to
school.
I'm
back
at
my
desk
by
8:15,
I'm
doing
my
own
business
work
from
like
8.15
to
10.
And
so
that
could
be
following
up
with
my
coaching
clients,
it
could
be
business
development,
it
could
be
writing
content,
it
could
be
working
on
my
newsletter,
any
of
those
things,
right?
Um,
then
on
Mondays
in
particular,
I
like
to
stack
up
all
my
client
meetings,
my
face-to-face
time
with
all
my
my
principals.
So
anybody
I'm
doing
fractional
COO
work,
I
like
to
meet
with
the
founder
every
Monday
so
that
we
can
plot
out
the
week
together.
Here's
Selling Ops Work Through Trust
Mary Alice Duff
37:52
the
things
I'm
working
on,
these
are
my
priorities,
do
they
align
with
your
priorities?
Here's
how
they
tie
to
the
bigger
picture,
et
cetera.
And
then
I'm
off
to
the
races
for
the
rest
of
the
week,
um,
prioritizing
various
client
projects
uh
and
just
like
getting
shit
done,
basically.
Um,
but
I
really
do
try
to
break
up
my
day
so
that
that
first
part
of
the
day
is
on
my
business,
second
part
of
the
day
is
on
the
client.
I
like
to
take
a
uh,
you
know,
a
decent
lunch,
go
for
a
walk,
walk
my
dog,
um,
and
then
I
wrap
up.
But
I
have
been
finding
that
I'm
trying
to
lean
more
into
like
my
natural
energy
and
rhythms.
And
if
I'm
feeling
particularly
inspired
to
write
something
on
a
Sunday
afternoon,
like
I
do
it,
you
know.
Um,
you
know,
I
don't
have
three
kids,
just
the
one.
And
I
am
finding
like,
you
know,
I
have
more
time
now
to
kind
of
dedicate
to
just
like
writing
and
being
creative.
And
so
really
trying
to
enjoy
that.
But
my
days
are
pretty
structured.
Uh,
but
then
again,
if
like
I'm
feeling
like
shit
and
I
just
don't
want
to
work
that
day,
I'll
close
the
laptop
and
go
for
a
walk,
go
run
errands,
go
find
something
to
do.
Um,
because
my
work
is
asynchronous
for
the
most
part.
People
don't
need
immediate
answers
from
me.
I'm
not
working
on
things
that
are
like
urgent,
they're
more
long-term
and
strategic.
Um,
I
do
have
a
virtual
assistant
who
I
can
delegate
tasks
to.
Um,
and
then
with
the
clients
I
work
with,
I
also
have
team
members
I
can
delegate
things
to.
So
um,
yeah,
I
mean
it's
pretty
structured,
but
I
also
have
a
lot
of
flexibility.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
39:19
That's
pretty
good.
Right.
Yeah.
And
that
uh
that
acronym
AI
is
sort
of
floating
around
a
lot
in
different
spheres
of
work.
Yeah.
Um
is
AI
something
or
any
sort
of
form
of
forms
of
automation?
Are
you
using
any
of
that
to
sort
of
put
you
in
an
advantage
in
terms
that
you
uh
asynchronous
works
brilliantly,
you
know,
anything
else?
Mary Alice Duff
39:43
Yeah,
I
mean,
I
definitely
am
a
chat
GPT
power
user
for
sure.
Um,
so
like
a
lot
of
the
things
that
I'll
be
doing
um
when
I'm
like
developing
the
best
process
for
doing
something.
So
I
go
through
the
process
a
couple
of
times
and
then
I
make
a
voice
note,
I
dump
it
into
ChatGPT
and
into
A
template
that
I've
created,
and
now
we
have
a
standard
operating
procedure
for
that
thing
that
I
can
then
share
with
the
team.
Um,
you
know,
whether
it's
creating
a
content
calendar
or
I'll
have
a
team
meeting
with
a
bunch
of
people,
and
then
we
need
to
get
what
we
talked
about
into
an
Asana
project.
So
I'll
dump
the
transcript
into
Chat
GPT
and
I'll
tell
it,
make
it
into
an
Asana
project
with
all
of
my
headers,
who's
doing
what,
suggested
deadlines,
and
then
we're
just
dropping
that
into
Asana.
So
I
definitely
am
using
ChatGPT
in
my
day-to-day
work,
and
I'm
starting
to
experiment
with
um
some
new
tools
like
AI
agents.
So
instead
of
just
a
single
prompt,
it's
uh
actual
like
AI-powered
agents
doing
one
prompt
from
the
next
to
the
next.
So
create
a
creative
brief
for
this
blog
post.
Great.
Write
the
blog
post,
human
reviews
it,
great.
Post
the
blog
post
to
the
website,
great.
Go
on
to
Canva
and
create
a
pin
for
the
blog
post.
Okay.
Go
on
to
and
pin
the
pin
linking
back
to
the
website.
Do
that
100
times.
So
that's
what
we're
experimenting
with
right
now.
Um,
the
reality
is
like
I
wouldn't
be
able
to
manage
the
client
load
that
I
have
plus
my
coaching
program
as
a
one-person
business
if
I
didn't
have
AI
tools.
It
would
it
would
just
be
impossible.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
41:15
Yeah,
I
I
did
think
that.
It's
like
a
lot.
Some
people
only
some
people
just
have
a
coaching
business,
and
that's
that
sort
of
like
so
yeah,
I
have
to
take
my
hat
off
to
you
for
that.
But
um
so
uh
I
know
you
you
you've
got
the
coaching
side
of
your
business,
but
but
um
for
anybody
listening,
um
what
what
advice
would
you
give
to
you
know
anybody
who
was
looking
to
start
their
own
location
independent
freelance
business
or
fra
you
know
to
become
a
fractional
like
yourself?
Mary Alice Duff
41:47
Yeah.
Yeah.
So
one
of
the
little
hacks
that
um
I've
shared
with
people
online,
just
to
kind
of
get
you
thinking
more
like
an
entrepreneur
and
less
like
an
employee.
Lessons From Early Mistakes
Mary Alice Duff
41:57
So
to
take
your
resume
and
beef
it
up
with
everything
you've
ever
done.
Don't
worry,
you
know,
if
things
are
related,
put
all
of
your
skills,
all
of
your
accomplishments,
things
that
you've
really
loved,
projects
you've
led,
put
it
into
Chat
GPT
and
ask
it
the
following.
Um,
if
I
were
self-employed,
if
I
was
going
to
start
a
business
of
one,
suggest
some
service
offerings
I
could
offer
with
my
skills
and
interests
and
my
accomplishments
using
that
information.
And
then
who
would
I
sell
those
services
to?
And
that
will
give
you
a
chance
for
you
to
kind
of
zoom
out
and
say,
okay,
I've
been
doing
HR
work.
Oh,
look,
there's
all
this
common
denominator
between
all
of
these
companies.
They
all,
you
know,
are
in
the
food
industry.
Okay,
that's
interesting.
I
could
sell
myself
as
an,
you
know,
a
fractional
HR
person
for
small
businesses
in
the
food
space,
something
to
that
effect.
But
what
this
activity
does
is
it
gets
you
to
start
thinking
as
someone
independent
from
a
company,
someone
independent
from
relying
on
a
paycheck
from
a
single
employer,
and
gets
you
to
start
thinking
of
how
can
you
take
your
skills,
your
services,
your
experiences,
your
preferences,
and
craft
them
in
a
way
that
works
for
you,
right?
That
aligns
with
your
life
and
also
is
sellable
and
who
it
could
be
sellable
to.
Um
and
it's
just
a
good
way
to
kind
of
get
thinking
about
how
you
could
be
self-employed.
Um,
I've
done
it
and
it
always
comes
back,
you
know,
you
should
be
a
fractional
COL.
I'm
like,
yeah,
I
know.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
43:24
I've
never
thought
of
actually
doing
doing
it
in
that
way,
but
yeah,
it's
it's
it's
definitely
good
advice
and
it's
working
for
you.
And
um
but
what
I
want
to
know
now
as
we
begin
to
wrap
up,
yeah,
what
Mary
are
your
goals?
What
what
what's
what's
the
future
look
like
for
you
and
your
business?
Um
and
also
where
can
people
find
you
online?
Mary Alice Duff
43:47
Yeah.
So
what's
the
future
look
like?
You
know,
um,
so
one
of
the
things
um
that
I'm
working
on
right
now
is
thinking
through
how
to
scale
what
I
do
without
having
to
work
more
or
hire
a
bunch
of
people.
Um,
I've
definitely
gone
down
that
road
before.
I
had
a
company,
I
had
a
bunch
of
employees.
It
was
exceptionally
stressful
worrying
about
payroll
every
two
weeks.
Um,
and
so
one
of
the
things
I'm
working
on
right
now
is
productizing
my
intellectual
property.
So
there's
a
very
specific
way
I
work
with
people.
Um,
it's
extremely
human-centered.
I
try,
uh
I
do
have
a
social
work
background,
so
I'm
always
trying
to
come
uh
at
people
to
understand
like
where
they
are,
where
they
come
from,
what
motivates
them,
what
makes
them
tick.
And
I
think
because
I
do
that,
it
helps
me
work
with
people
in
a
way
uh
that's
successful
because
I'm
actually
meeting
them
where
they
are,
right?
So
I'm
thinking
through
how
to
productize
my
IP
and
what
that
might
look
like.
So
whether
that's
courses
or
a
book
or
workshops
or
whatever,
um,
that's
definitely
something
I'm
thinking
through.
Um,
but
you
know,
the
future
for
me
is
continuing
delivering
for
my
clients,
uh,
expanding
my
coaching
program,
um,
and
enjoying
my
life.
I
like
my
life.
So,
you
know,
improving
my
French,
traveling,
you
know,
having
a
good
time.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
45:08
Sounds
good.
Sounds
good.
And
where
can
anybody
who's
interested
in
either
finding
out
more
about
your
um
COO
practice
or
your
coach
practice,
where's
the
best
place
to
look?
I
think
I'm
I'm
I
think
I
know
what
you
might
say,
but
yeah,
you
tell
me.
Mary Alice Duff
45:22
Definitely
LinkedIn.
That's
the
only
place
I
hang
out.
and
I
have
a
newsletter.
Um,
but
yeah,
is
definitely
the
first
port
of
call.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
45:30
Excellent.
Thank
you.
It's
been
enlightening,
it's
been
entertaining,
it's
been,
you
know,
um
energizing.
So
thank
you
for
joining
me
today.
Mary Alice Duff
45:38
Thanks
for
having
me,
Alex.
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