RWL048 How to Leverage Personal Authenticity and Values for Remote Work Success w/ Brian Lemmerman of Inner Sensei

Overcoming Barriers in Remote Work

Alex Wilson-Campbell
0:00

Hello

everybody
,

it's

Alex

again

from

the

Remote

Work

Life

Podcast
,

and

today

I

have

another

great

guest

with

me
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
0:07

Today

I

have

Brian

Lemmerman
,

and

Brian

is

the

founder

of

Inner

Sensei
,

and

you

can

find

Inner

Sensei

at

innersenseicom
.

I'll

leave

the

details

in

the

show

notes

for

you
,

but

Brian

helps

entrepreneurs

essentially

to

shatter

their

fears
,

live

with

purpose

and

get

paid

handsomely

for

it
.

Brian

himself

is

a

digital

marketer

and

has

been

so

since

2009

and

has

helped

thousands

of

conscious

business-like

coaches
,

creatives

and

non-profits

overcome

barriers

to

serving

their

clients

by

understanding

their

fears
,

running
,

training

and

profit
.

Let's

start

again
.

I

need

to

start

again
.

I'm

sorry
.

I'm

sorry
,

I

didn't

like

that

at

all
,

sorry
.

Brian

has

helped

thousands

of

conscious

businesses

like

coaches
,

creatives

Got

you

Okay
?

Training

their

attention

and

profitably

sharing

their

knowledge

online
.

Got

it

Okay
,

let's

do

it

again
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
1:06

Hey

everybody
,

it's

Alex

again

from

the

Remote

Work

Live

podcast
,

and

I

have

another

exceptional

guest

with

me

today

I

have

Brian

Lemmerman
,

who

is

the

founder

of

Innocence
.

You

can

find

Brian

at

Innocencecom
,

and

Brian

essentially

helps

entrepreneurs

shatter

their

fears
,

live

with

purpose

and

get

paid

handsomely

for

it
.

Brian

himself

has

been

a

digital

marketer

since

2009

and

has

helped

thousands

of

conscious

businesses

like

coaches
,

creatives

and

non-profits

overcome

barriers

to

serving

their

clients

by

understanding

their

fears
,

training

their

attention

and

profit

profitably
,

sharing

their

knowledge

online
.

He's

spoken

and

offered

workshops

at

venues

such

as

world

happiness

festival

and

the

mindfulness

course

as

well
,

and

he

also

developed

that
.

He

well

yeah
,

in

fact
,

he

developed

that
,

didn't

you
,

brian
?

Uh
,

barry

university
,

so

got

there

in

the

end

with

the

introduction
.

Thank

you

for

joining

us

today

about

um

bright
.

You

know
,

oh

my

god
,

oh

my
,

you're

doing

great

man
,

you're

doing

great
.

Brian Lemmerman
2:20

This

has

never

happened

to

me

before

in

60

in

60

interviews
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
2:24

I've

never

kind

of
.

I

need

to

start
.

Brian Lemmerman
2:28

This

is

the

this

is

no
,

this

is

the

beauty

of

it
.

I

and

I

would

invite

you

to

keep

this

take

in

your

podcast
,

because

you

know

what
?

You

know

so
,

like

speaking

of

understanding

your

fears

and

like
,

just

like

messing

up

right
,

like

just

being

vulnerable

enough

to

demonstrate

the

process

of

producing

something

like

this

and

how

it

doesn't

always

go

perfect
.

Brian Lemmerman
3:06

Following

looks

up

to

you

as

an

authority

and

somebody

who

brokers

other

people's

knowledge

and

shares

absolute

value
,

with

expecting

nothing

in

return
.

And

you

are

a

community

builder
.

That

is

who

you

are

and

from

the

outside
,

looking

in
,

it

looks

perfect
.

You

know

like

it

looks

like
.

You've

got

it

all

together
.

You've

got

a

beautiful

website
.

Your

community

is

built
.

You're

now

growing

your

LinkedIn

following

and

I

guarantee

people

in

your

community

are

looking

at

you

like

man
.

I

want

to

be

like

that

guy
.

How

do

I

do

it
?

He

nails

everything

for

sure
.

Absolutely

it's
.

This

is

like

people

show

up

to

your

calls

because

they

they

look

up

to

you

in

that

way
.

Brian Lemmerman
3:41

And

what

a

lot

of

people

don't

realize

is

there

are

a

lot

of

mistakes

that

get

made

in

the

process
.

Absolutely
,

yeah
,

right
.

I

think

that's
.

This

is

a

huge

thing

to

share
,

and

I

go

through

it

as

well
.

Yeah
,

right
,

like

I've
.

I've

been

doing

this

line

of

work

since
,

I

mean

for

over

a

decade

and

I'm

still

figuring

things

out
.

I'm

still

making

mistakes
,

and

I

think

that's

the

beautiful

thing

about

being

an

entrepreneur
,

especially

if

you're

working

remotely

right
,

because

if

you

are

whether

you

have

already

been

successful

doing

that

or

you're

listening

to

this

and

you

want

to

learn

how

to

work

remotely
.

There's

a

lot

to

learn
,

absolutely
,

and

you're

not

going

to

get

it

all

right

the

first

time
,

and

that's

okay
.

The

important

thing

is

that

you're

not

going

to

get

it

all

right

the

first

time
,

and

that's

okay
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
4:27

The

important

thing

is

that

you're

doing

it
.

No
,

I

like

that

and

thank

you

for

the

booster

there
.

I

needed

that
.

I

needed

that
.

Man

Dear

me
.

Just

reading

off

a

script

is

gosh
,

gosh
.

Okay
,

let's

go

for

it

again
.

Let's

do

this

this

time
.

Brian Lemmerman
4:41

Are

we

going

to

keep

this

one
?

What

are

you
?

Alex Wilson-Campbell
4:45

going

to

do
.

I'll

keep

it

as

an

outtake
.

I'll

keep

it

as

an

outtake
.

Maybe

I'm

a

bit

of

a

perfectionist

as

well
.

I'm

too

much

of

a

perfectionist

sometimes
.

Brian Lemmerman
4:54

That's

my

problem

I

mean
,

I

think

it

might

be

worth

sharing
,

even

like

that

clip

right

there
,

for

people

to

be

able

to

see

what

goes

on

you

know
,

I

will

actually
.

Brian Lemmerman
5:03

It's

funny
,

it's

um

I

think

I

will

go

ahead
,

brian
,

sorry

the

the

thing

that

the

thing

that

I

shared

with

you

on

the

call

last

week

this

landing

page

about
,

like
,

setting

up

the

workshop

course
,

um
,

and

all

that

it's

like

you

saw

the

beginning

of

a

process

that

developed

over

the

course

of

a

week

and

it's

like

I

may

not

even

use

that

right
,

but

like

here

I

am

like

creating

it

and

sharing

about

it
,

and

it's

important

to

share

about

these

things
,

just

for

the

process

of

how

these

things

are

created

sure

it'll

have

some

use

in

the

near

future
,

but

not

immediate
.

Brian Lemmerman
5:34

This

idea

evolved

into

something

else

which

is

taking

off

this

friday
,

right

and

but

it

what

it

took

was

going

through

this

process

of

saying
,

okay
,

well
,

I'm

going

to

do

this

kind

of

thing
,

and

then

speaking

to

people

about

it

and

then

finding

synergies

between

different

people

in

my

network

and

say

somebody

says
,

oh

my

God
,

I

want

to

do

this

aspect

of

what

you're

sharing
,

and

I'm

like
,

oh

my

God
,

this

is

what

I

was

missing

from

my

thing
.

Let's

just

do

this
.

And

then

the

project

evolves
.

And

so

it's

important

to

share

the

unfinished

work
.

It's

important

to

share

the

sketches

and

the

bloopers
.

Yeah
,

the

sketches
,

the

bloopers
,

the

mistakes
,

it's

all

important
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
6:13

Yeah
,

I

hear

you
.

I

hear

you
,

should

we

go

again
?

Brian Lemmerman
6:17

If

you

wish
,

let's

do

it
.

All

right
,

go

for

it
,

let's

do

it
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
6:21

Let's

do

it
.

Hey

everybody
,

it's

Alex

again

from

the

Remote

Work

Life

Podcast
,

and

I

have

today

with

me

an

exceptional

guest
.

I

have

Brian

Leberman

of

Innocence

and

you

can

find

him

at

Innocencecom

and

Brian

helps

entrepreneurs

shatter

their

fears
,

live

with

purpose

and

get

paid

handsomely

for

it
.

Now

Brian

has

been

a

digital

marketer

since

2009

and

he's

helped

thousands

of

conscious

businesses

like

coaches
,

creatives

and

non-profits

overcome

barriers

to

serving

their

clients

by

understanding

their

fears
,

training

their

attention

and

profitably

sharing

their

knowledge

online
.

He's

spoken

and

offered

workshops

at

venues

such

as

the

World

Happiness

Festival

and

the

Mindfulness

Course

which

he

developed

at

Barrow

University
.

Very

welcome
,

brian
,

thanks

for

joining

us
.

Brian Lemmerman
7:13

Hey
,

thank

you

so

much

for

having

me
,

Alex
.

This

is

really

great
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
7:16

Real

pleasure

to

have

you
,

and

I

met

Brian

quite

recently
.

How

did

we

meet

again
?

We

obviously

met

somewhere

online
.

How

did

that

all

happen
?

Brian Lemmerman
7:26

We

met

through

your

Facebook

group
,

the

Remote

Work

Life

group
,

and

I

found

that

to

be

a

really

amazing

community

and

full

disclosure
.

The

way

that

we

met

was

part

of

my

digital

marketing

efforts

for

this

recent

project

that

I'm

creating
,

which

is

teaching

entrepreneurs

and

professionals

how

to

digitize

their

businesses

using

online

education
.

Navigating Lead Generation in Remote Work

Brian Lemmerman
7:49

Right

now
,

and

I

don't

know

how

recently
,

this

podcast

episode

is

going

to

air
,

but

if

you've

been

watching

any

sort

of

media

or

reading

anything

on

the

internet
,

you

know

that

we're

in

the

midst

of

a

coronavirus

pandemic
.

Oh

yeah
,

think

of

it

what

you

will
,

but

this

is

such

a

wonderful

opportunity

for

people

like

you

and

me

to

thrive

because

we're

way

ahead

of

the

curve
.

Brian Lemmerman
8:12

So

many

businesses

right

now

are

struggling

to

maintain

their

client

base
,

generate

cash

flow

and

to

even

succeed
.

Many

businesses

are

subject

to

fail

right

now

because

they

don't

have

what

it

takes

to

go

online
,

and

for

people

like

us
,

who

everything

we

do

is

online
,

everything

we

do

is

digital

we're

in

a

position

to

show

these
,

our

fellow

business

owners
,

how

to

digitize

their

practices
,

and

so
,

as

part

of

creating

a

mastermind

group

to

show

people

how

to

create

their

own

microcourses
,

I

was

looking

for

communities

that

I

could

get

involved

with

and

connect

with

who

might

be

looking

for

something

like

that
.

And

then

I

found

your

Facebook

group

and

then

we

just

started

talking

and

I

just

want

to

thank

you

so

much

for

putting

this

community

together
,

because

it's

helping

so

many

people

start

or

continue

their

businesses

in

an

era

where

remote

work

is

now

the

new

norm
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
9:06

Absolutely
,

and

I

wanted

to

thank

you

for

connecting
,

and

that's

the

beauty

of

you

know
,

this

whole

experience

that

we're

going

through

is

that

there's

so

much

more

opportunity

to

connect

online

and

for

people

to

learn

as

well
,

because
,

you

know
,

we're

in

a

situation

where

we're

many

people

in

a

situation

where

they're

we're

yeah
,

many

people

are

in

a

situation

where

they're

being

forced

to
,

to

go

online
.

I

don't

see

that

as

necessarily

a

bad

thing
,

as

you've

alluded

to
,

brian
,

and

it

gives

the

opportunity

to
,

to

still

stay

that
,

you

know
,

keep

those

connections

open

to
,

to

build

your

business
,

to

build

your

career

in

a

different

way

that

you

perhaps

not

have

thought

of

or

maybe

you've

been

putting

off
,

you

know
,

and

now

is

the

time

to

jump

into

it
,

because

the

tools

are

out

there
.

The

people

like

Brian

are

there

as

well

to

galvanize

that

whole

thing
,

and

today

we're

going

to

be

talking

mainly

about

lead

generation
,

because

I

know

that's

a

big

question

and

that's

something

that

Brian

is

really

into
,

right
,

brian
.

Brian Lemmerman
10:01

Yeah
,

yeah
.

So

working

in

digital

marketing
,

one

of

the

questions

I

get

asked

most

frequently

is

well
,

how

do

I

get

customers

for

my

business
?

How

do

I

use

the

internet

to

grow

my

business
?

How

do

I

maintain

relationships

with

people

using

the

internet

in

ways

that

wouldn't

be

possible

if

I

only

had

face-to-face

interactions
?

Or

if

you're

in

a

position

where

your

business

is

relying

on

word-of-mouth

marketing

it
,

it's

only

a

matter

of

time

before

a

that

network

dries

up
.

Or

you

have

to

keep

showing

up

to

different

events

and

meeting

new

people
,

and

if

you're

constantly

networking

and

maybe

you're

an

introvert
,

I

don't

know
,

but

that

could

be

exhausting

to

build

your

network

in

person

and

hope

that

you

generate

enough

business

that

way

to

keep

your

company

going
.

It's

one

thing

to

try

to

maintain

your

current

level

of

success

with

word

of

mouth

marketing
,

but

it's

another

thing

if

you

want

to

scale

your

business
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
10:57

And

with

that

I

mean

that's

a

massive

clue
,

as

I

said

before
,

in

terms

of

what

we're

going

to

be

going

into

today
.

As

I

mentioned
,

lead

generation

an

important

topic

that

many

of

the

visitors

and

members

of

the

remote

work-life

Facebook

community

have

asked

me

to

really

sort

of

put

some

meat

on

the

bones

to
,

and

Brian

is

just

the

guy

to

do

that

today
.

But

before

we

dive

into

that
,

I

want

to

know

a

bit

more

about

Brian

and

a

bit

more

about

you
,

brian
,

a

bit

more

about

how

you

came

to

be

where

you

are

now
.

So

give

us

a

bit

of

a

background

on

how

you

came

to

be

where

you

are

now
.

Brian Lemmerman
11:36

Sure
,

yeah
,

so

there's

a

couple

of

stories

that

lead

up

to

that
,

but

what

I

could

say

first

is

that

I

graduated

from

the

University

of

Miami

in

2009

with

a

degree

in

architecture
,

which

is

really

interesting
.

So

I

had

this

sort

of

traditional

middle-class

education
.

I

had

a

really

privileged

and

good

early

life

and

I

was

set

up
.

Everything

that

I

learned

to

that

point

was

to

go

get

a

job

in

an

office

and

follow

orders

and

produce

good

work
,

and

I

was

really

happy

about

the

kind

of

work

that

I

did
.

I

love

design
,

I

love

creating

things
,

and

I

did

enjoy

working

together

with

people
.

Brian Lemmerman
12:16

And

in

2008
,

2009
,

many

of

you

remember

that

was

the

height

of

the

previous

economic

crisis
,

we'll

call

it

and

I

didn't

really

understand

what

any

of

that

meant
.

At

the

time
,

I

had

very

little

economic

knowledge
,

I

knew

very

little

about

money

and

how

the

world

worked

that

way
,

and

I

knew

almost

nothing

about

business
.

And

there

were

over

60

of

us

in

our

graduating

class

from

the

School

of

Architecture
.

I

think

only

three

people

ended

up

getting

work

and

it

was
,

yeah
,

most

people

graduated

and

they

decided

well
,

I

guess

I'm

just

going

to

go

move

back

home

or

I'm

going

to

I'll

just

go

to

grad

school
.

If

you

can

get

into

grad

school
,

a

handful

of

people

found

work
,

but

not

in

the

industry

that

they

studied

in
,

and

maybe

some

of

you

listening

have

also

had

this

experience

where

you

studied

one

thing

and

you

found

it

irrelevant

to

what

you

eventually

come

to

do
.

Yeah
,

right
,

whether

you

made

that

decision

consciously

or

your

circumstances

forced

you

to

choose

a

different

path

in

order

to

earn

a

living
,

and

so

I

had

zero

business

experience

or

knowledge
.

Brian Lemmerman
13:31

And

there

were

a

couple

of

friends

that

I

had

who

were

designers

One

person

was

really

good

at

sales

and

we

got

together

one

day

and

we

said

you

know

what
?

Let's

see

what

happens

if

we

start

a

business

and

it

started

out

as

a

graphic

design

firm
.

Right
,

which

is

like

super

narrow

in

scope
,

like

okay
,

we'll

do

logos

and

websites

for

businesses
,

and

this

is

like

2009
,

right
,

so

what

did

you

do

in

2009
?

Well
,

you

would

custom

code

websites

for

small

businesses

and
,

like

you

know
,

if

you

got

into

wordpress
,

you

were

a

real

professional
.

So

back

then
,

things

were

a

lot

different

than

they

are

now
,

and

I

remember

we

we

didn't

know

what

we

were

doing

really
,

but

we

landed

our

first

client
.

It

was

a

shipping

and

logistics

company

and

it

was

a

family

friend
,

as

your

first

client

usually

is
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
14:23

No

pressure

then
.

Brian Lemmerman
14:24

Right
,

yeah
,

no

pressure

right

yeah
,

no

pressure
.

And

they

said
,

well
,

we

need

a

website

for

our

business
.

Their

business

did

not

have

a

website
.

And

we

said
,

sure
,

um

and

uh
.

I

remember

the

pricing

conversation

like

how

do

we

actually

price
?

You

know

what

it

is

that

we're

going

to

do
,

and

there

are

many

different

ways

that

you

can

go

about

setting

your

prices

for

your

services
.

My

favorite

method

is

to

just

put

a

sticker

on

it

and

see

how

it

goes
.

So

we

said
,

um
,

yeah
,

we

can

do

that
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
14:50

It'll

have

these

things

in

it

and

that'll

be

eight

grand

okay
,

I'd

love

to

be

a

fly

on

the

wall

at

that

conversation

that's

essentially

how

it

happened
.

Brian Lemmerman
14:59

It's

like
,

okay
,

you

don't

have

this
.

We

understand

the

value

that

it

has

for

your

business

and

at

the

time

we

preferred

not

to

bill

by

the

hour
.

So

when

you

bill

by

the

hour
,

if

you're

really

good
,

you

either

have

to

increase

your

hourly

rate
,

which

can

scare

people

because

they

want

to

know

what

your

hourly

rate

is
,

or

you

just

take

longer

to

deliver

so

that

it

looks

like

you're

working

hard
.

We

decided

to

skip

all

of

that

and

we

said
,

okay
,

sticker

price

8

grand
,

take

it

or

leave

it
.

And

they

were

like
,

oh
,

absolutely
,

because

for

them

they

were

doing

so

much

business

and

it

was

worth

it
.

And

so

you

can

actually

price

your

products

and

services

based

on

the

value

that

it

has

for

that

company

and

then

choose

your

clients

like

that
.

Brian Lemmerman
15:43

And

so

that's

what

we

did

and

that's

how

we

grew

our

first

business
,

by

avoiding

the

trap

of

working

by

the

hour

and

putting

prices

on

our

products

and

services

according

to

the

value

that

services

had

for

the

business
.

And

if

you

target

the

right

customers

in

the

beginning

it

was

word

of

mouth

marketing

we're

going

to

chamber

of

commerce

meetings

and

we

were

doing

free

workshops

to

get

leads
.

But

if

you

play

your

cards

right

and

you

go

after

the

right

people
,

you

can

be

very

successful

at

that
.

Now
,

of

course
,

you're

going

to

face

rejection
.

Brian Lemmerman
16:14

People

are

going

to

say

no
,

there's

absolutely

no

way

we

could

pay

that
.

And

I

think

we

got

lucky

with

this

one
,

and

so

that's

the

first

part

of

the

story
.

The

second

part

of

the

story

is

after

they

said

yes
.

Then

we

just

kind

of

froze

and

we

looked

at

each

other
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
16:30

Did

they

really

say
?

Brian Lemmerman
16:30

yes
,

yeah
.

They

totally

said

yes
,

yeah
.

And

then
,

and

then

we're

like
,

all

right
,

cool
,

we'll

do

it
.

And

we

set

like

a

deadline
,

I

think
,

of

eight

weeks
.

And

we

got

back

to

the

office

and

we

looked

at

each

other

and

and

one

of

my

partners

asked

well
,

um
,

do

any

of

you

know

how

to

code

a

website
?

Alex Wilson-Campbell
16:49

I

love

it
.

I

love

it
.

So

you

must

have

been

sitting

there

with

your

poker

faces

on

in

front

of

the

client

as

if

it

was

a

normal

sort

of

conversation
.

And

when

you

get

back

to

the

office

you're

kind

of

all

your

exhilaration

and

all

your

sort

of

uh

process

begins

to

come

to

your
,

to

your

mind
,

in

terms

of

what
?

Brian Lemmerman
17:05

you've

got

to

do

now

Totally

so
.

This

was

a

strategy

that

I

have

employed

over

and

over

again

in

the

last

decade

to

be

successful

and

to

get

to

where

I

am

now
,

and

it's

this

If

you

don't

know

how

to

do

something

and

you

are

totally

committed

to

getting

it

done
,

you

make

the

commitment

and

then

you

figure

it

out
.

Of

course
,

obviously
,

you

have

a

little

bit

of

understanding

of

like

how

it

might

work
,

or

a

huge

willingness

to

learn

the

skill
,

to

get

the

payoff

and

to

make

a

difference

for

that

person

that

you're

serving
,

and

that's

how

you

grow
.

If

you

want

to

go
,

if

you

want

to

grow

rapidly

as

a

person
,

if

you

want

to

learn

new

skills

fast
,

you

just

say

yes

to

the

things

that

you

want

to

do
,

even

if

you

don't

know

how

to

do

them
.

Brian Lemmerman
17:47

You

just

say

yes

to

the

things

that

you

want

to

do
,

even

if

you

don't

know

how

to

do

them

and

even

if

it

scares

the

crap

out

of

you
.

Oh
,

yeah
,

yeah
,

right
.

And

then

you
,

you

do

it
.

You

move

mountains

to

get

it

done
,

and

there's

always

somebody
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
17:55

Sorry
,

brian
,

there's

always

somebody

out

there

who

knows

something

that

you

don't

Right
,

and

you

can

always

get

them

involved
,

right
.

Brian Lemmerman
18:01

Absolutely

yeah
,

so

you

can

commit

to

something
.

Always

get

them

involved
,

right
.

Absolutely

yeah
,

so

you

can

commit

to

something
.

And

if

your

price

point's

high

enough

and

you're

getting

paid

well

enough
,

and

especially

if

you
,

if

you

make

your

payment

terms

so

that

you

get

paid

upfront
,

then

you

can

afford

to

outsource

your

work

to

people

who

know

what

they're

doing
.

And

so

I

remember

for

that

first

website
,

I

scrambled

to

master

HTML

and

CSS
.

That

was

the

thing
.

So

I

got

pretty

good

at

it
.

We

got

the

website

up

to

a

point
,

and

then

periodically
,

you

get

stuck
,

of

course
,

and

it's

like

you

make

anything

on

the

computer

and

there's

always

a

problem
.

And

so

we

did

end

up

for

several

of

our

projects

in

the

beginning
,

just

to

get

them

done
.

We

would

outsource

to

experts

in

our

community
,

like

hey
,

you've

been

doing

web

development

for

10

years
,

can

you

help

us

with

this
?

And

then
,

of

course
,

they

set

their

price

points
.

Again
,

no

problem
,

it'll

be

three

grand
,

like
.

That's

like

30%

of

what

we

just

heard
,

but

it's

worth

it
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
18:57

Yeah
,

yeah
.

Brian Lemmerman
18:58

Right
,

and

then

you

focus

on

growing

your

sales
,

and

and

then

eventually

you

get

little

systems

in

place

and

so

you

sell

a

project
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
19:06

you

know

who

to

refer

to

do

the

work
,

and

it's

a

matter

of

just

making

the

connections

at

that

point

so

you've

got

the

the

background

then

and

I

suppose
,

yeah
,

that

kind

of

helps

your

own

learning
,

it

helps

your

development
.

You're

learning

as

you

go
,

but

you've

got

the

expertise

that

you're

leveraging

from

your

community

and

your
,

your

collections
.

Yeah
,

how

did

you

go

from
?

I

mean
,

did

you

then

build

upon

that

in

terms

of

getting

similar

clients
?

Or

how

did

your

journey

go

then

to

where

you

are

now
?

How

did

that

continue
,

man
?

Brian Lemmerman
19:36

so

from

there
,

what

we
,

what

we

did

in

the

beginning
,

was

what

most

businesses

do
.

We

didn't

have

much

of

a

plan

and

we

were

just

trying

to

grab

at

any

kind

of

client

that

we

could

to

do

whatever

kind

of

work

that

we

could

Navigating Business Partnerships and Values

Brian Lemmerman
19:48

.

There's

advantages

and

disadvantages

to

that

strategy
.

The

advantage

is

you

can

land

clients

that

are

willing

to

pay

you

for

your

work
.

The

disadvantage

is

your

company

doesn't

have

a

solid

direction

and

you

have

to

learn

a

wider

range

of

skill

sets

in

order

to

accommodate

that

client

base
.

This

also

has

pros

and

cons

to

it
,

the

pros

being

you

develop

a

wide

range

of

skill

sets

so

you

can

serve

more

people

or

you

can

serve

a

niche

of

people

better
.

But

again
,

the

cons

are

the

amount

of

either

time

that

you

need

to

spend

to

learn

these

skills

or

growing

your

network

of

people

that

you

outsource

to

in

order

to

accommodate
.

Brian Lemmerman
20:27

I

prefer

to

focus

now

on

a

niche

of

people
.

My

ideal

client

is

the

person

that

I

was

five

years

ago

Like
,

looking

at

people

who

are

small

entrepreneurs
,

looking

at

people

that

are

coaches
,

people

that

work

in

the

nonprofit

industry
,

and

that's

sort

of

been

my

world

in

recent

years

and
,

having

grown

and

developed

in

that

world
.

I

know

how

to

help

an

entrepreneur

or

a

small

business

owner

get

to

the

point

where

they

can

automate

certain

parts

of

their

business

or

generate

income

online

and

especially

teaching
,

like

what

we're

doing

here

in

this

conversation
.

You're

not

paying

me

to

be

on

your

podcast
,

but

I

understand

that

as

a

marketer

or

as

a

business

owner

in

general
,

or

even

as

a

person

who

wants

to

be

considered

valuable

in

the

market
,

if

I

have

skills

and

knowledge

that

I

can

share
,

I'm

going

to

share

it
,

because

what

that

does

is

it

generates

value

for

the

person

listening

it
,

because

what

that

does

is

it

generates

value

for

the

person

listening
,

for

the

person

learning
,

and

it

builds

trust

and

a

relationship

there

and

what

ends

up

happening
.

Brian Lemmerman
21:30

I

love

the
,

the

Pareto

principle
,

the

80

20

rule
.

It's

like

80

of

the

people

listening
,

but

even

90

of

the

people

listening

and

go

oh

yeah
,

that

was

a

really

nice

podcast
,

cool
,

and

they'll

get

value

from

it

and

they

might

implement

one

or

two

of

the

strategies

and

then

they

they

go

on

with

life

and

that's

great

and

I

get

to

help

them
.

That

way
,

ten

percent

of

the

people

listening

are

gonna

be

like

wow
,

that

was

really

cool
.

I

want

to

know

more

about

what

he

does
,

and

I'll

get

emails

or

I'll

get

messages

on

facebook

from

people

that

find

me

through

things

like

this
,

because

they'll

say
,

wow
,

that

was

so

valuable

to

hear

about

the

mistakes

that

you

made

doing

this

process
.

Because

what

it

does

is

it

saves

people

time

and

effort
,

and

so

I

can

become

valuable

by

sharing

knowledge

and

skills
,

and

that

is

one

of

the

prime

marketing

strategies

for

anybody

who's

trying

to

be

an

entrepreneur
,

especially

in

the

digital

space

you

alluded

to
,

happy

to

share

their

knowledge
,

happy

to

share

what

they've
,

what's

good

and

what's

not

so

good
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
22:39

Because

I

think

that

in

itself

can

can

help

people
,

can

help

the

remote

work

life

audience

to

overcome

any

obstacles

that

they

might

have

or

at

least

go

around

certain

obstacles

that

perhaps

Brian

or

I

have

had

in

the
,

in

the

you

know
,

in

the

years

that

we've

been

trying

to

develop

our

own

brands
,

our

own

businesses
.

Yeah
,

because

there's

nothing

more

frustrating
,

actually
,

than

coming

up

against

an

obstacle

and

you

don't

know

not

only

who

to

talk

to

but

where

to

look
,

how

to

remedy

that

situation
.

It's

always

best

to

learn
,

I

believe
,

from

people

who

have

have

been

there

and

people

who

have

experienced

what

you're

going

through

right

now
.

So

that's

of

great

value
.

And

then
,

brian
,

so

you've

got

to

the

point

now

where

you're

you've

got

some

clients

they're

probably

not

the

ideal

clients

um
,

that

you've

got

different

clients

in

different

niches
.

So

you

and

then

you

start

to

niche

down
,

as

you

said

before
.

Yeah
,

so

what

was
,

what

was

your

plan

then
?

What
?

What

were

you
?

What

were

you

looking

to

do

after

that
?

Brian Lemmerman
23:43

Did

you

have

a

plan
,

sort

of
.

We

started

to

create

a

plan

and

so

this

was

the

thing

in

my

first

business

I

mentioned

to

you
.

My

early

education

gave

me

the

skills

to

be

an

employee
,

not

necessarily

to

run

a

business
.

A

lot

of

my

business

ownership

skills

I

kind

of

learned

on

the

fly
,

and

in

that

area

I

did

not

learn

them

fast

enough

to

be

successful

in

that

first

business

and

in

many

ways

I

took

a

back

seat

to

the

leadership

of

my

own

company
,

and

so

my

partners

wanted

the

company

to

go

in

one

direction
.

I

wanted

it

to

go

in

a

different

direction

and

essentially

I

was

outvoted

and

I

was

okay

with

that
,

because

what

I

came

to

realize

was

that

as

we

we

started

to

pursue
,

uh
,

what

we

call

lifestyle

companies

and
,

um
,

these

were
,

uh
,

my
,

my

partners

wanted

to

create

a

big

agency

where

they

would

eventually

have

clients

like

Coca-Cola

and

Papa

John's

and

like

these

big

kind

of

multinational

corporations

and

that

sounds

really

good
.

Except

my

value

system

is

one

of
,

like

I

want

to

protect

the

environment
,

I

want

to

do

things

that

are

healthy

for

people
,

and

I

saw

a

direct

conflict

with

that

and

so

for

months

after
,

we

had

these

planning

conversations

and

I

just

wasn't

like
.

I

was

the

disgruntled

partner

in

the

room
,

I

was

that

guy

man

Like

I

was

the

difficult

one

and

I

didn't

have

the

awareness

at

the

time

to

realize

that

I

thought

that

they

were

being

really

challenging

started

my

mindfulness

practice

toward

the

end

of

that

era

that

I

started

to

see

that

who

I

was

in

my

business

was

somebody

that

just

wasn't

compatible

with

where

my

business

was

going
,

and

up

until

that

point

I

had

to

really

accept

that

I

was

not

actively

leading

my

business

and

that's

why

my

partners

were

taking

such

a

strong

hold

of

it
,

and

so

that

realization

was

eye

opening

for

me

and

it

it

stopped

me

in

my

tracks

and

I

had

to
.

I

had

to

learn

to

a

let

go

of

the

business

that

I

had

built

and

eventually

I

did

step

down

from

my

role

as

a

partner

and

owner

in

the

business

and

and

I

learned

a

lot

from

that

experience
,

just

in

terms

of

the

process

of

actually

selling

off

your

shares

and

making

the

next

transition

in

life

and

that

that

company

still

exists

and

it's

still

doing

really

well
.

Brian Lemmerman
26:03

It's

a

um
,

it's

an

ad

agency
.

It

went

from

a

graphic

design

firm
,

started

in

one

of

our

partner's

garages

with

some

cheap

Ikea

furniture

and

our

laptops
,

right
,

and

it's

now
.

I

think

they've

got

10

employees

there
.

They're

based

in

Coral

Gables
,

florida
.

They're

called

threefold

T

H

R

three
,

three

F

O

L

Dcom

and

you

can

check

that

out
.

They're

pretty

cool

and

they

do

work

with

lifestyle

brands
.

Now

they

have

like

big

appliance

companies

Um
,

it's

uh

international

shipping

companies
.

They

worked

with

a

banana

company
.

I

think

it

was

like

a

direct

competitor

to

chiquita

for

a

while
,

so

they

design
,

yeah

so

they've

got
,

they

fulfill

their

ambitions
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
26:42

And

it

again

is

a

lesson

in

that
,

because

in

fact

we

had

a

conversation

about

this

yesterday

on

on

our

group
,

chat

um
,

which

brian

is

also

a

part

of
,

actually
.

But

yesterday

we

were

talking

about

how

conflict

not

sort

of

physical

conflict
,

but

how

conflict

can

arise

when

you

work

in

an

organization

where

there

is

sort

of

differentiation

in

values

and

differentiation

in

sort

of

like

the

direction

in

which

you're

going
.

Because

you

can

get

people

who

just

well
,

not

just
,

but

you

can

get

people

like

just

um
,

well
,

not

just
.

But

you

can

get

people

like

brian

who

have

real

strong

values

and

have

a

real

determination

in

terms

of

the

direction

that

he

wants

to

go

in
,

have

a

real

strong

opinion

in

terms

of

the

types

of

people

and

businesses

that

he

wants

to

work

in
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
27:29

And

if

there's
,

if

that

conflict

is
,

is

there
,

is

is

present
,

then

one

side

or

another

is

going

to

feel

frustrated

and

there's

going

to

be

at

some

point

where

you

know

there'll

be

a

parting

of

ways
.

Essentially
,

and

it's

not

necessarily

a

bad

thing
,

I

think

it's

sometimes

it's

a

learning

lesson

in

itself
,

because

when

you

feel

those

feelings

of

frustration

or

feel

like

in

some

ways

you

may

feel

like

an

outsider
,

if

you're

in

a

current
,

in

a

business

that

you're

in

now

or

in

a

job

that

you're

in

at

the

moment
,

if

you

feel

that

that's

just

your

the

what
,

the

universe

telling

you

that

it's

time

to

sort

of

really

break

out

and

understand

yourself

more
,

so

you

can

then

go

on

a

path

that

that

suits

you

better
.

And

that's

exactly

what

you've

done
,

right
,

brian

right
?

Brian Lemmerman
28:16

yeah
,

that's

absolutely

true
.

So
,

going

like

touching

on

this

thing

about

values

that

you

mentioned
,

this

is

this

is

so

crucial

and

the

reason

that

any

kind

of

relationship

doesn't

work

out

whether

it's

a

a

romantic

relationship
,

a

friendship
,

a

business

partnership

it

always

has

to

do

with

a

difference

in

values
,

and

so

it's

really

important

at

the

beginning

to

have

a

conversation

with

whomever

you're

about

to

engage

with

or

whatever

kind

of

relationship
,

about

the

value

systems

that

you

share

and

to

be

aware

of

where

the

differences

are
,

and

you

can

have

that

work

to

your

advantage

as

well
,

because

one

partner

can

complement

the

strengths

and

the

values

of

another

partner
.

You

don't

necessarily

have

to

agree

on

everything
,

but

it

is

really

important

to

acknowledge

each

other
,

to

respect

each

other's

values

and

to

play

well

with

them
,

to

hand

off

the

right

kind

of

work

to

the

right

people
,

because

if

you

are

expecting

somebody

to

be

responsible

for

something

that

they

don't

value
,

they're

not

going

to

be

happy
.

If

you

engage

somebody

in

a

relationship

and

try

to

get

them

to

be

a

certain

way

or

to

try

to

be

different

so

that

they

can

fit

a

certain

role
,

they're

not

going

to

be

happy
.

Living Your Values in Remote Work

Brian Lemmerman
29:29

As

human

beings
,

our

core

values

are

our

most

deeply

rooted

subconscious

beliefs

and

as

somebody

who

deals

professionally

with

people's

subconscious

and

their

mindfulness

practices

and

having

people

go

from

feeling

lost

to

finding

purpose
,

the

value

systems
.

Identifying

your

core

values

is

the

very

first

step

to

getting

the

kind

of

person

that

you

were

about

to

become
,

and

we

see

this

over

and

over

again
.

Brian Lemmerman
30:00

People

go

into

business

because

they're

friends

of

a

certain

sort
,

but

they

don't

share

the

same

values

when

it

comes

to

money
,

or

when

it

comes

to

service

or

when

it

comes

to

delivery
,

and

that

creates

conflict
.

So

what

I

learned

in

my

situation

was

that

leaving

that

company
,

although

it

was

painful
,

it

was

something

that

I

had

built
.

It

was

a

blessing

in

disguise
,

because

had

I

stayed
,

I

would

have

been

trying

to

mold

my

values

to

the

values

of

the

company

as

it

was

growing
.

And

that

just

doesn't

work
.

And

you

will

notice

if

you

reflect

on

your

own

life
,

you're

always

in

transition
.

As

much

as

you

try

to

hold

on

to

a

good

thing

when

you

have

it

going
,

it's

always

changing

in

one

way

or

another
,

and

it's

it's

these

times

when

there's

a

rapid

change

all

of

a

sudden

like

we're

experiencing

now

with

this

pandemic

that

people

start

to

panic

because

suddenly

circumstances

are

shifting

away

from

their

values

and

they're

not

sure

how

to

bridge

the

gap
.

But

if

you

can

be

aware

of

that
,

that

is

always

happening
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
31:06

You

learn

not

to

panic

when

things

like

this

happen

and

you

can

create

something

new

within

your

set

of

values

to

then

adapt

yourself

to

the

situation

so

don't

fight

the

feeling
,

I

mean
,

and

I

think

this

is
,

this

is
,

um
,

something

that's

overlooked

actually
,

and

you

probably

I

mean
,

maybe

you're

wondering

why

we're

talking

about

values

when

it

comes

to

lead

generation
,

but

it's

like

brian

said
,

it's

the

top
,

it's

the

thing

that

you

probably

look

at

first

before

you

even

get

into

that
,

because

I've

spoken

to

people

who

own

agencies

or

they're

starting

out

with

their

lead

generation

and

getting

clients
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
31:40

They've

got

I

don't

know

five

or

10

clients

in

their

agency
,

but

they

don't

like

working

with

their

clients

because

even

their

clients

don't

share

the

same

values

and

in

fact
,

they're

so

exhausted

by

the

complaints

that

their

clients

make

about

the

way

that

they

work

or

there's

there's

a

conflict

even

between

them

and

their

clients
.

So

it's

like

brian

said
,

you

have

to

be

conscious

of

the

changes

that

occur

within

you
,

because

your

values

system

it's

there
,

but

you
,

you're
,

you'll
,

you'll

notice

changes

as

you
,

as

you

grow

older
,

because

that

enculturation
,

in

fact
,

from

your

parents
,

from

your

family
,

where

you've

been

told

a

certain

thing
,

which

kind

of
,

is

in

conflict

where

you

are

now
,

you

have

to

realize

that

those

changes

occur

and

therefore

start

to

I

don't

know

you

will

start

to

gravitate

towards

people

who

share

your

values
.

So

don't
,

so

don't

fight

that

you

know
.

Brian Lemmerman
32:39

Yeah
,

yeah
,

absolutely
.

And

in

that

first

business
,

I

was

somebody

who

was

still

at

conflict

with

the

expectations

of

my

family

and

what

I

was

going

to

do

for

work
.

I

was

22
,

20
,

22

when

I

started

that

business
.

So
,

coming

out

of

college
,

of

course

everybody's

disappointed
.

Why

didn't

you

go

into

architecture
?

What

are

you

doing

with

your

life

when

you're

playing

with

your

stupid

laptop

and

making

logos
?

And

it's

like
,

okay
,

guys
,

be

patient
,

right
?

And

after

a

couple

of

years
,

my

family

realized
,

okay
,

he's

actually

like

doing

this

and

helping

people

and

earning

a

living
,

so

we'll

leave

him

alone
.

Brian Lemmerman
33:09

But

it

can

take

you

some

time

to

demonstrate

the

worth

of

your

values

to

the

people

in

your

life
,

right
,

and

so

if

you

are

going

off

on

your

own

and

trying

to

do

something

new

or

different
,

don't

expect

that

everyone's

going

to

accept

it

right

away
.

That's

okay
.

I

think

what

you

said
,

alex
,

is

so

pertinent
.

It's

like

you

do

you

right
.

You

have

to

create

and

live

within

your

value

system

and

not

adjust

them

to

the

expectations

of

others
,

including

your

clients
.

Don't

bend

your

values

just

because

somebody's

going

to

pay

you

for

your

work
,

and

that's

why

I

think

the

idea

of

just

slapping

a

price

sticker

on

your

work

if

I

say

if

somebody

comes

to

me

and

they

says
,

hey
,

I

need

a

five-page

website

just

to

promote

my

business

and

I

don't

really

do

that

kind

of

work

anymore
,

but

I

can
,

I

do

know

where

I

can

help

somebody

there
.

So

I

say
,

okay
,

my

minimum

price

point

is

$2,500
.

If

you

want

that
,

let

me

know

if

you

could

pay

that
,

and

then

we'll

talk

about

what

you

need

and

all

of

that
,

and

so

I

either

get

a

yes

or

no

right
.

Then

if

they

hesitate
,

hesitate

and

they

say
,

oh
,

that's

kind

of

high
.

They're

like
,

all

right
,

cool
.

Well
,

there

are

lots

of

people

who

can

help

you

for

a

lower

price

point
.

I

can't

guarantee

what

you're

going

to

get

from

them
,

but

then

I

stand

firm

in

what

I

know

how

to

do

and

how

I

know

how

to

do

it

well
,

because

I

can

create

a

website

that's

actually

going

to

sell

people's

products

or

services
,

versus

like

a

five

page

template

that

is

just

going

to

be
,

you

know
,

informational
,

with

bullet

points

on

it
.

There's

a

big

difference
,

absolutely

so
,

um
.

Brian Lemmerman
34:45

So
,

yeah
,

I

think

holding

true

to

your

values
,

even

as

you're

selling
,

and

and

knowing

what

you're

worth

and

the

difference

that

you

can

make

for

a

potential

customer

is

also

really

important
.

And

if

you

don't

have

the

experience

yet

marketing

and

selling

your

products

or

services
,

if

you're

a

freelancer
,

if

you

offer

these

kinds

of

marketing

design

services
,

whatever

it

is

that

you

do
,

that's

okay
.

I

totally

invite

you

to

start

off

working

by

the

hour

or

setting

a

lower

price

point

if

you

feel

timid

about

that
,

and

just

see

how

it

goes
.

But

Notice

we're

in

the

process
.

You

get

frustrated
.

Notice

to

see

if

you

can

be

aware

of

the

conflicts

and

values

between

you

and

your

client
.

I

find

that

often

the

people

that

are

willing

to

pay

the

least

are

the

most

difficult

people

to

work

with
,

because

not

only

do

they

not

get

the

value

of

what

you

do
,

but

they

try

to

cut

corners

everywhere

in

business

and

they

expect

the

world
,

don't

they

even
?

Alex Wilson-Campbell
35:38

yeah
,

even

at

a

low

price

point
,

they

still

expect

everything
.

Brian Lemmerman
35:41

Yeah

they'll

want

to

have

like

a

catch-up

call

with

you

every

two

days
.

They

want

to

pick

the

colors

of

the

thing

that

you're

designing
.

They're

going

to

want

to

say
,

okay
,

well
,

I

know

I

wanted

this

last

week
,

but

I

still

need

to

send

it

to

my

mom

and

my

cousin

for

their

feedback
.

And

then

you

get

their

feedback

like

three

weeks

later
,

after

they

promised

it

two

weeks

later
,

and

then

you

know

it

just

becomes

this

mess

and

it

wastes

your

time

and

you

barely

get

paid

for

it
.

And

then

sometimes

people

like

that

will

say
,

yeah
,

you

know

what

this

isn't

working
.

And

then

you

do

all

this

work

and

then

they

don't

pay

you

at

the

end
.

Brian Lemmerman
36:13

So

you

can

save

yourself

a

lot

of

pain

by

just

setting

a

high

price

point

up

front
,

and

that

filters

out

the

people

that

who

are

actually

qualified

to

be

your

clients
.

You

qualify

your

clients
.

Don't

let

your

clients

qualify

you
.

You

can
.

You

set

your

terms

for

who

you

want

to

work

with

and

how
,

and

the

people

who

are

serious

about

their

business

will

pay
.

They'll

be

willing

to

work

with

you

because

they'll

see

that

you're

serious

about

their

business

will

pay
.

They'll

be

willing

to

work

with

you

because

they'll

see

that

you're

serious

about

your

business

and

that

you're

confident

in

what

you

offer
.

Even

if

you're

not

confident

in

what

you

offer
,

you

can

still

figure

it

out

after

they

pay

you

up

front
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
36:47

So

know

your

value

and

your

values

as

well

at

the

same

time
.

Absolutely
,

but

no
,

so

you've

gone

from

then
,

setting

up

your

business

in
,

like

you

said
,

in

a

garage

yeah
,

now

you're
,

you're

in
.

So

you

started

out

in

America
,

in

Miami
,

florida
,

is

that

right
?

Brian Lemmerman
37:09

Yeah
,

I

started

out

in

Miami
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
37:10

Miami
,

florida
,

and

now

you're

in

Germany
.

How

did

that

all

come

about
?

Brian Lemmerman
37:18

now

you're

in

Germany
.

How

did

that

all

come

about
?

That's

a

great

question
.

So

fast

forward

a

few

years
.

I

went

through

a

whole
.

I

went

through

two

separate

career

transitions

between

then

and

now
,

and

my

evolution

has

taken

me

here
.

I

fell

in

love

with

a

beautiful

German

woman

and

we

moved

here
.

She's

originally

from

here

and

we

recently

got

married

Congratulations
,

thank

you

and

we

work

together

as

remote

freelancers

and

what

you're

seeing

for

those

of

you

who

are

listening

to

the

podcast

you

can't

see

but

this

is

our

home
,

and

so

we

have

our

little

desk

set

up

here
.

My

wife

is

in

the

bed

working

right

now
,

and

that's

the

situation
.

It's

very

comfortable

is

in

the

bed

working

right

now
.

That's

the

situation
.

It's

very

comfortable
.

Also
,

working

from

home

in

a

foreign

country

is

a

skill

that

we

threw

ourselves

into

and

had

to

learn

on

the

fly
.

There's

a

lot

about

that

that

I

can

share
.

I

think

that

the

story

is

really

quite

cool
.

Navigating Personal Values and Career Choices

Brian Lemmerman
38:13

After

I

sold

my

shares

of

the

business

and

um
,

uh
,

over

the

course

of

the

next

month
,

I

was

in

panic

mode

in

a

sense
,

but

I

got

into

this

flow

of

like
,

okay
,

what

am

I

going

to

do

next
?

And

I

I

knew

that

I

wanted

to

pursue

my

passion
,

whatever

that

was
.

And

um
,

and

so

I

I

looked

first

to

architecture
,

cause

that's

what

I

studied

and

I

wanted

to

get

back

into
,

maybe
,

that

industry

and

develop

myself

there
,

and

I

had

it

for

a

while

that

I

wanted

to

become

a

licensed

architect
.

So

I

ended

up

landing

a

job

with

one

of

the

world's

top

urban

planning

companies
,

which
,

ironically
,

did

not

have

enough

architecture

training

for

me

to

get

licensed
.

It

was

urban

planning
,

but

the

work

was

fun

and

it

sent

me
.

Brian Lemmerman
38:57

I

got

to

travel

to

different

places

in

the

world
.

I

designed

cities
,

towns
,

neighborhoods

in

all

across

the

US
.

We

did

the

master

plan

for

the

area

surrounding

downtown

Phoenix
,

arizona
.

We

did

work

in

Portland
,

oregon
.

We

did

work

in

Brazil
,

the

Philippines
,

and

I

got

to

meet

a

lot

of

really

great

people

and

I

got

to

exercise

my

design

skills

and

my

business

savvy

that

I

had

developed

in

my

own

business

in

a

way

that

wasn't

that

wouldn't

have

been

available

to

a

typical

employee
.

Brian Lemmerman
39:28

And

the

way

that

I

actually

got

that

job

was

I

had

interviewed

with

the

director

of

business

development

for

that

company
.

He

was

the

one

conducting

the

interviews

and

you

know
,

I

went

to

a

career

fair

and

he

was

standing

there

and

there

was

a

line

of

college

age

students

and

I

had

been

out

of

college

for

like

five

years
.

At

that

point
,

I

had

all

this

experience

and

I'm

like

listening

to

them

speak

and

I

was

like
,

oh

my

God
,

like

I

get

that

the

average

college

student

has

no

idea

about

the

world

of

business

and

most

of

the

people

standing

in

line

are

looking

for

a

job
.

They're

there

because

they

want

something
,

not

because

they

have

something

to

give
,

and

that

when

I

got

that

lesson

in

that

moment
,

that

was

huge
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
40:16

And

when

I

got

that

lesson

in

that

moment
,

that

was

huge

and

I

think

that

is

a

lesson

in

itself
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
40:19

I

think
,

especially

now

in

this

whole

scenario

that

we're

in
,

where

perhaps

more

of

a

challenge

actually

in

terms

of

acquiring

new

clients

or

getting

the

role

that

you

want

to

get
,

the

role

that

you

want

to

get

um
,

I

think

if

you

go

from

a

point

of

view

of

if

you

approach

a

decision

maker

from

a

point

of

view

of

um
,

of

being

able

to

solve

a

problem

or

being

able

to

offer

something

that

they

want
,

instead

of

going

there

as

somebody

who

wants

something

from

them
,

then

you'll

stand

a

much

greater

chance

of

getting

those

leads

or

getting

that

person

as

a

client

or

winning

that

job

opportunity
.

Yeah
,

but

I

think
,

having

that

realization
,

that

presence

of

mind

that

you

had

I

don't

think

it's

necessarily

everybody

thinks

along

those

lines
,

but

I

think

it's

an

important

thing

to

highlight

on

top

of

the

values

it's

that

how

can

you

position

yourself

within

a

niche

as

a

problem

solver

um
,

and

rise

above
,

I

guess
,

um
,

because

you're

obviously

going

to

have

competition

as

well
.

So

right

did

that
,

brian
,

didn't

you
?

Brian Lemmerman
41:26

yeah
.

So

I

had

a

conversation

with
,

uh
,

with

the

director

of

business

development

and

um

and

it
.

I

showed

off

my

portfolio

at

first

and

it

was

funny

because

it

was

a

portfolio

that

I

developed

five

years

prior

when

I

was

in

school
,

and

it

was

kind

of

embarrassing

at

that

point

because

my

design

skills

had

leveled

up

several

times
.

But

I

chose

to

center

my

interview

conversation

around

well
,

how

can

I

help

your

business

grow
?

Because

I

get

that

we're

at

the

tail

end

of

a

recession

and

now

things

are

starting

to

pick

back

up

and

companies

are

hiring
,

including

your

competitors
,

and

now

you

guys

must

be

competing

for

projects

all

over

the

world
.

And

he

goes

yeah
,

that's

absolutely

true
.

Tell

me

what

you

know

about

that
.

And

I

said

well
,

I

have

x

amount

of

experience

writing

winning

proposals

to

get

however

many

thousands

of

dollars

of

projects
.

And

so

when

I

got
,

I

got

hired

for

being

a

designer
,

which

is

what

they

were

looking

for
.

And
,

by

the

way
,

like

I

had

very

little

skill

being

an

urban

designer
,

my

most

of

my

design

was

like

graphic

design

and

marketing
,

but

I

learned

the

core
.

Less

of

the

core

skills

of

my

design

was

like

graphic

design

and

marketing
,

but

I

learned

the

core

skills

of

my

job

while

I

was

on

the

job

and

then

half

the

time

they

had

me

working

on

these

huge

proposals

that

they

would

write

for

cities

and

different

countries

and

big

developing

companies

to

pitch

our

planning

services

for

these

projects
.

That

were

several

million

dollars

in

scale

and

we

won

quite

a

few

of

them
,

and

so

I

got

to

be
,

in

essence
,

a

salesperson
.

I

was

a

marketer

for

this

company

where

I

was

originally

supposed

to

be

a

designer
,

and

I

really

liked

that

job
.

From

an

employee

standpoint

it

was

a

really

nice

situation
.

It

paid

well
.

I

got

to

exercise

my

talents
.

Brian Lemmerman
43:19

As

I

was

there

and

as

we

got

deeper

into

the

work

I

began

to

realize

that

there

were

some

things

about

the

work

that

we

do
.

Although

the

kind

of

urban

planning

we

were

doing

was

altruistic
,

it

was

environmentally

sensitive
.

It

was

supposed

to

be

good

for

building

communities

and

bringing

people

together
.

It's

part

of

a

movement

known

as

New

Urbanism
,

which

is

a

return

to

making

places

the

way

that

they

were

pre-automobile
,

where

everything

was

so

spread

apart
.

There

were

some

times

where

we

would

be

hired

to

do

these

ethically

questionable

projects
.

So

there

was

one
.

Brian Lemmerman
43:52

We

worked

in

Brazil

and

this

company

had

amassed

some

land

in

the

Amazon

rainforest
.

And

they

said
,

okay
,

we

got

this

land
,

we

want

you

to

clear

this

portion

of

it

and

build

high-rises
.

And

we

were

all

looking

at

each

other

like
,

is

that

what

you

paid

us

to

come

out

here

for
?

And

you

get

paid

and

you

do

the

work
.

And

I

remember

having

this

conversation

with

the

partners

in

the

business

about
,

like
,

something

about

this

doesn't

feel

right

to

me
,

it

doesn't

sit

right
.

We're

still

doing

it
,

and

everybody

felt

the

same

way
,

but

they

had

been

in

it

for

so

long

that

their

justification

was

well
,

you

know
,

like

if

any

other

company

got

the

project
,

it

would

have

been

even

worse
.

So

at

least

we

got

the

project
,

which
,

like

I
,

get

the

justification
,

and

at

that

point

my

intuition
,

my
,

my

value

system

started

to

light

up

that's

kicking

in

again
,

isn't

it
?

Brian Lemmerman
44:49

yeah
,

like

I

can't
,

I

don't

know
,

like

I

I

can't

numb

that

and

and

continue

doing

this
.

And

we

did

a

few

projects

like

that

and

for

the

following

six

months

or

so
,

I

was

in

this

ethical

quandary

of

do

I

stay

here

and

enjoy

my

comfortable

paycheck

and

the

people

that

I

love

working

with
,

doing

creative

work
,

but

it

goes

against

my

immediate

value

system
,

or

do

I

go

to

the

next

thing

in

my

life
,

whatever

that's

going

to

be
?

And

I

resisted

moving

on

and

something

happens

when

you

resist

your

values
,

and

it

can

come

in

the

form

of

health

problems

we

make

ourselves
.

Brian Lemmerman
45:31

Oh

yeah
,

it's

very

uncomfortable
.

You

live

in

a

state

of

stress

and
,

as

as

a

result

of

stress
,

you

get

sick
.

But

sometimes

the

universe

gives

you

a

little

kick

in

the

right

direction
.

So
,

you

know
,

god

comes

along

and

is

like

well
,

I'm

not

going

to

let

you

live

that

way
.

Whatever

you

believe

in

is

going

to

force

you

to

make

a

change

one

way

or

another
,

whether

you

get

drastically

sick

or
,

in

my

case
,

whether

you're

riding

your

bike

home

one

night

and

you

get

rear-ended

by

a

lexus

hybrid
,

oh

wow
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
46:02

And

I

woke

up

in

the

hospital
.

Oh

my

god
,

that

that

is

the

proverbial

kick

in

the

backside
,

isn't

it
?

Brian Lemmerman
46:05

oh
,

for

sure

it

was

a

huge
.

It

was

a

kick

so

hard

I

don't

even

remember

what
?

Alex Wilson-Campbell
46:10

oh

my

gosh
,

wow
.

Well
,

there's

a

lot

there
,

brian
.

There's

a

lot
.

I

mean
.

I'm

just

just

just

recapping

on

what

you

were
,

you

were

saying

there
,

just

to

bring

it

all

into
,

into

focus
,

because

there's

a

couple

of

things
.

So

we

talked

just

briefly

about

rising

above

the

competition

in

terms

of

um
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
46:29

You

I

you've

identified

your

talents
,

you've

got

your
,

your

values

set
.

You
,

you

you're

pretty

well-rounded

person
.

Well
,

you

were

back

then
.

Even

then

you

kind

of

understood

yourself

pretty

deeply

and

I

think

that's

so

important
.

Talents
,

values
,

hard

skills
,

meta

skills
,

all

those

kinds

of

things

can

come

together

nicely

to

form

the

individual
.

And

now

you've

you

know
,

even

in

your

in

the

job

that

you

won
,

where

you're

doing

your

business

development

and

you
,

you

had

that

knack

for

sales

and

bringing

in

business
,

which

businesses

of

all

shapes

and

sizes
.

They

can't

resist

that
.

Even

if

you
,

if

you
,

even

if

you

can

do

I

don't

know

um

data

entry

and

you

can

do

business

development
.

There's

always

going

to

be

a

business

out

there

that

wants

people

that

can

bring

clients

in
,

and

brian

has

identified

that
.

But

then

there's

always

going

to

be

a

business

out

there

that

wants

people

that

can

bring

clients

in
,

and

Brian

has

identified

that
.

But

then

there's

this

whole

thing

about

values
.

Values

has

come

back

into

the

equation

again
.

Brian Lemmerman
47:21

Always

comes

back

to

values
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
47:23

And

it's

essentially

put

you

into

a

situation

where

it's

coming

to

hit

you

home
.

So

what

happened

there

with

dyslexia
?

Tell

me
,

I'm

intrigued
.

Brian Lemmerman
47:32

Man
.

So

I

spent

the

better

part

of

a

year

recovering

from

moderate

concussive

symptoms
.

I

had

short-term

memory

loss

for

about

three

months

and

I

didn't

return

to

work

for

I

think

it

was

over

a

year
.

Oh

wow
,

this

company

that

I

worked

for

for
.

Brian Lemmerman
47:53

so

I

was

about

to

go

to

Japan

to

do

work
,

and

I

had

always

wanted

to

go

to

Japan

and

I

still

never

have

been

must

have

great

architecture

out

there

as

well

oh

my

god
,

I

was

going

to

go

to

Japan

in

three

days

and

I

got

hit

by

this

car

and

it

was

the

greatest

blessing

of

my

entire

life
,

because

now

I

had

this

opportunity

to

reflect
.

Finding Purpose Through Helping Others

Brian Lemmerman
48:20

I

couldn't

get

out

of

bed

for

about

two

to

three

weeks

and

so

I'm

laying

in

bed

and

um
,

and

I

was

married

at

the

time
,

uh
,

to

to

somebody

different

and

um
,

and

I

was

living

the

kind

of

life

where

you

know
,

I

was

gone

all

day
,

she

was

gone

all

day

and

we

weren't

spending

a

lot

of

time

together
.

And

as

soon

as

I

was

stuck

in

bed

and

I

couldn't

be

that

go

getter

type

A

personality

anymore

like

I

had

no

work

to

do
,

there

was

no

place

to

go

I

realized

what

kind

of

life

that

I

had

built

in

my

personal

life
.

Go
,

I

realized

what

kind

of

life

that

I

had

built

in

my

personal

life

and

I

really

got

to

know

the

person

I

was

married

to

and

realized

that

we

had

a

huge

conflict

in

values
.

It

always

comes

down

to

values
.

Now

we're

spending

more

time

with

each

other

and

I

began

to

question

things

in

my

personal

life

as

well
.

And

at

the

same

time
,

something

happens
,

and

I'm

sure

99%

of

you

can

relate

to

this
.

Brian Lemmerman
49:18

If

you

don't

currently

have

a

mindfulness

or

a

meditation

practice

of

any

sort
,

if

you

try

to

sit

in

silence

and

do

absolutely

nothing

for

more

than

60

seconds
,

it

could

drive

you

mad
,

it

could

drive

you

absolutely

crazy
.

And

for

me

at

the

time
,

I

had

just

started

that

practice

and

I

began

to

notice

that

whenever

I

would

be

still
,

I

had

this

nagging

voice

in

the

back

of

my

head

like
,

hey
,

you

need

to

go

do

something
,

you

need

to

be

productive
,

you

need

to

go

be

valuable
,

you

need

to

like
.

This

is

boring
,

you're

wasting

time
,

people

are

going

to

judge

you
,

you're

going

to

be

worthless
.

And

it

just

started

to

go

on

and

on
,

and

on

and

on
.

And

then
,

of

course
,

I

didn't

go

anywhere
.

And

so
,

instead

of

resisting

the

voice

which

I

had

in

the

past
,

I

just

became

super

aware

of

it
,

to

the

point

where

it

became

so

familiar

and

so

a

part

of

my

being

that

I

decided

to

make

friends

with

it

and

I

said
,

wow
,

like

I
,

I

acknowledge

that

you're

here

and

I

totally

accept

that

you're

trying

to

help

me

right

now
.

And

I

just

want

to

tell

you

like
,

as

your

partner

in

my

mind
,

this

is
,

this

is

not

going

to

help

us

right

now
.

So
,

um
,

if

you

could

please
,

um
,

so

if

you

could

please
,

and
,

and

after

about

two

weeks

it

the

volume

got

turned

down

so

low

and

it

began

to

listen

to

my

request

of

it
.

And

so
,

if

it

would

come

up

and

say
,

hey
,

you

want

to

do

the

thing

now
?

No
,

not

right

now
,

thanks
,

and

um
,

and

I

became

partners

with

that

side

of

myself
.

Brian Lemmerman
50:55

And

so

I
,

during

that

time
,

I

created

this
,

this

amazing

ability

to

utilize

that

side

of

myself

when

I

needed

to

right
,

but

if

I

wanted

to

just

be
,

I

could

do

that
,

and

that

gave

me

space

to

reflect

and

to

create

the

next

phase

of

my

life

from

nothing
,

not

necessarily

because

I

felt

the

need

to

do

something
,

to

be

seen

a

certain

way

or

to

avoid

being

judged

or

to

avoid

feeling

bad
.

So

I

decided

that

I

was

just

going

to

help

people
.

I

was

just

going

to

help

people
,

and

so
,

like

here

I

am
,

I

had

short-term

memory

loss
,

I

had

lost

the

ability

to

visualize
,

and

then
,

over

the

course

of

the

next

few

months
,

I

developed

symptoms

of

post-traumatic

stress

disorder
,

which

I

then

had

to

crack

by

just

being

totally

aware

of

all

the

sensations

in

my

body

and

becoming

partners

with

my

body

again
,

and

that's

a

process

that

I

can

teach

people

who

have

been

through

that
.

Um
,

although

I'm

not

a

trauma

certified

professional
,

so

that's

that's

kind

of

like

a

a

very

touchy

area

in

the

realm

of

the

kind

of

coaching

work

that

I

do
,

apart

from

marketing
.

But

having
,

but

having

this
,

this

unique

skill
,

I

decided
,

okay
,

well
,

we're

comfortable

enough

financially
,

I

have

some

time

now
,

and

I

was

struggling

with

some

worthiness

issues
,

like

I'm

broken

and

I

can't

help

people

now
,

and

so

to

overcome

that
,

I

decided

to

just

help

people

and

I

started

volunteering

at

a

co-working

space

in

Miami

called

the

Center

for

Social

Change
,

and

presently

they've

got

about

75

nonprofits

in

this

place
,

and

what

I

love

about

this

space

is

it's

such

a

warm
,

inviting

and

collaborative

environment
.

And

as

I

was

volunteering

there
,

this

happened

to

also

be

the

same

place

where

my

wife

was

working
.

Brian Lemmerman
52:51

At

the

time
,

I

learned

that

I

had

so

many

skills

from

my

past

that

I

could

just

contribute

to

these

nonprofits
,

who

were

essentially

an

extension

of

myself

that

wanted

to

change

the

world

and

help

people

in

so

many

different

ways
,

and

so

I

got

to

support

people

with

marketing
,

with

advertising
,

with
,

and

then

we

built

the

website

for

the
,

for

the
,

the

co-working

space
,

and

I

was

doing

so

much

there

that

one

of

the
,

the
,

the

higher-ups
,

so

the

staff

members

pull

me

a

sign

said

hey
,

so

you're

volunteering

too

much
.

And

I

said

what

do

you

mean
?

I

said
,

well
,

you're

like

giving

a

lot

of

yourself
.

And

I

said

yeah
,

but

yeah
,

but

it's

great
,

they

go
.

Yeah
,

yeah
,

yeah
,

we

want

to

pay

you
.

What
,

what
?

Brian Lemmerman
53:37

They

want

to

give

you

some

money

for

the

work

that

you're

doing
,

right
,

but

that's

how

it

works
,

and

that

was

when

I

really

got

the

lesson

of

when

you

just

help

people
,

when

you

genuinely

give

yourself

to

something
,

the

money

comes
,

and

that's

been

true

throughout

my

entire

professional

experience
.

When

you

just

give

without

expectation
,

people

will

take

care

of

you
,

whether

it's

financially
,

with

lunch

every

now

and

then
,

with

sharing

their

time

with

you

and

bonding

and

learning

and

reflecting

together
,

we

get

to

make

new

friends

and

grow
.

There

are

all

these

intrinsic

values

that

you

can't

put

a

price

tag

on
,

that

you

can

get

as

a

reward

for

this
,

and

I'm

sure

you

experienced

this

as

well

as

a

leader

of

this

remote

work

life

community
.

I

mean
,

you

meet

people

that

you

wouldn't

have

had

the

opportunity
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
54:22

Yeah
,

it's

amazing

it

is

amazing

and

in

fact
,

um
,

it's
.

We

could
,

I

suppose
,

this

situation

we

do
.

You

get

people

complaining

about

being

locked

down

and

again
,

you

have

to

point

to

the

opportunity

to
.

You

mentioned

something

about

having

an

opportunity

when

you're

isolated
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
54:42

I

suppose

when

you're
,

when

you're

at

your

lowest

point
,

as

you

were

when

you

had

your

accident
,

you

were

reflecting
.

It

gave

you

that

opportunity

to

reflect

and

really

understand

yourself

better

and
,

in

essence
,

um
,

really

become

even

more

rounded
,

more

rounded

individual

than

you

were

as

you

were

developing

so

and

then

you've

gone

on

to
,

like

you

said
,

understand

that

your

purpose

is

to

is

to

help

other

people
.

You

put

that

into

practice
,

um
,

and

you're

an

example

of

what

you've

just

said

in

terms

of

when

you

give
,

you

know
,

things

reciprocate

well
,

not

reciprocate
,

but

just

they

come

back

and

reward

you

in

many

ways
,

not

just

monetarily
,

but

there's

nothing

better

than

giving

somebody

a

piece

of

advice

or
,

you

know
,

know
,

giving

them

your

time

and

they
,

they
,

they

say

thank

you
,

that

was

really

helpful

and

they

put

that

thing

into

practice
.

Right
,

and

I

think

that

sounds

like

what

you

were

doing

at

the
,

at

the

co-working

space

as

well
.

Brian Lemmerman
55:42

Yeah
,

and

this

is

Discovering Purpose Through Personal Growth

Brian Lemmerman
55:44

so
.

At

this

point

I

had

gotten

that

in
.

In

being

a

contribution
,

there's

a

a
,

an

unexpected

reward
,

and

it

could

show

up

in

any

form
.

And

as

I
,

as

I

was

doing

that
,

more

and

more

different

people

were

coming

to

me

and

saying
,

hey
,

can

you

do

this

for

me
,

can

you

show

me

how

to

do

this
?

And

they

were

willing

to

pay

for

it
.

Brian Lemmerman
55:58

And

as

I

was

going

through

the

tail

end

of

my

journey

with

ptsd

and

I
,

I

had

realized

that

the

tools

that

I

was

practicing

was

so

effective

that
,

like
,

I

could

also

share

this

with

people
,

and

so

I

decided

to

create

my

first

mindfulness

course

that

I

offered

on

my

own
.

I

created

a

flyer

and

a

landing

page

and
,

like

all

using

all

the

skills

that

I

had

developed

up

to

that

point

to

then

promote

this

thing
,

filled

my

first

class
.

And

then

one

of

my

students

in

that

class

was

a

life

coach

who

had

the

teaching

position

as

the

meditation

teacher

at

Bayer

University

in

Miami

Shores
.

And

he

goes

hey
,

I'm

about

to

step

down

from

this

position
.

Your

class

is

awesome
.

Do

you

want

my

position
?

I

can

recommend

you
,

and

I'm

thinking

like

I

don't

have

a

degree

in

this
,

I

like
,

if

you

want

to

be

a

professor
,

you

typically

need

at

least

a

master's

in

something
.

I

don't

have

that
,

but

sure

enough

it

worked

out
.

Where

they

were

willing

to

hire

me
,

they

paid

me
.

I

became

a

professor

there

for

two

years
,

teaching

the

most

popular

and

fastest

growing

class

in

the

university
,

and

this

was

more
.

Brian Lemmerman
57:08

It

was

originally

supposed

to

be

a

meditation

class

and

what

it

ended

up

becoming

was

a

class

that

was

geared

for

people

in

their

late

teens
,

early

20s
,

to

figure

out

who

they

are

and

create

their

lives

before

they

get

shot

out

of

college

and

into

this

thing

we

call

the

real

world
,

where

you

just

have

to

tread

water

and

hope

it

works

out
.

Brian Lemmerman
57:29

Yeah
,

and

hope

it

works

out
,

yeah
.

And

so

it's

funny

because

several

of

the

students

I

had

over

the

couple

of

years

while

doing

that

class
,

they
,

many

of

them
,

changed

majors
,

many

of

them

dropped

out

of

college
,

some

of

them

started

businesses
,

some

of

them

just

quit

college

and

said

you

know

what

I'm

going

to

go

travel
.

And

they

were
.

They

had

developed

the

emotional

intelligence

through

this

class

to

have

these

kinds

of

hard

conversations

with

their

parents

who

are

supporting

their

education

and

like

have

that

be

workable

and

so

like

that's

the

power

of

getting

to

know

yourself

and

being

confident

in

who

you

are

and

developing

these

kinds

of

skills
.

And

then

imagine

taking

that

and

starting

a

business

right
,

versus

like

just

getting

out

of

college

or

even

just

getting

a

business

degree
.

You're

still

only

following

orders

at

that

point
.

They

teach

you

how

to

be

a

manager
,

but

not

how

to

run

a

business

Right
.

So

yeah
.

Brian Lemmerman
58:17

Go

ahead
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
58:18

No
,

I

was

just

going

to

say

I

mean
,

it's

like

you

said
,

at

the

top

of

the

or

the

middle

of

the

course
.

Basically
,

sometimes

I

think

the
.

I

suppose

the

impression

I

get

is

that

people

approach

this

whole

idea

of

lead

generation

and

getting

clients

just

from

the

from

the

wrong

direction
.

In

england

they

call

it

putting

the

cart

before

the

horse
.

I

don't

know
,

do

you

have

that

expression

in

america
?

Brian Lemmerman
58:43

I

don't

know
,

yeah
,

yeah
,

it's

the

same
.

It's

the

same
.

We

don't
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
58:45

We

don't

have

carriages

anymore
,

but

we

have
,

you

know
,

yeah
,

so

putting

a

lot

of

automobiles

in

america

Exactly
,

and

I

think
,

putting

going

about

it

the

wrong

way

around
,

and

it

applies

to

so

many

like

you

alluded

to

yourself
,

brian
,

to

so

many

aspects

of

your

life
,

your

personal

relationships
,

your

job

and

your

employment
.

If

you

decide

to

go

and

find

a

job
,

your

business
,

your

life
,

your

whole

life
,

I

mean

there

were

times

as

well
.

I

mean

I

didn't

reach

the

potential

that

I

could

because

I

wasn't

quite

in

tune

with

what

I

wanted

to

do

and

who

I

was
.

But

when

you

are

that
,

you

know

that

to
,

to

want

to

figure

figure

things

out

first

and

foremost
,

everything

else

all

of

a

sudden

becomes

a

lot

more

clear

and

you're

able

to

understand

it

a

lot
,

a

lot

greater
,

and

it

sounds

like

you're

now

at

a

point

where

you're

literally

in

charge

of

your

destiny
,

right
,

and

you've
.

You've

figured

things

out
.

You

know

you've

got

your

business

up

and

running
.

Brian Lemmerman
59:54

Oh
,

yeah
,

you

say
,

figure

that's
.

That

is

a

funny

illusion

um

this

idea

that

somebody's

got

their

life

figured

out

right
,

like

it's

somebody

who

looks

like

they've

got

it

all

together

well
,

you

know
,

I

mean
,

I

don't

mean

necessarily

you've

got

everything

perfect
,

because

I

don't

think

at

any

point

anybody's

got

anything

perfect
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
1:00:12

Nobody

does
,

no

yeah
.

Brian Lemmerman
1:00:15

I

got

to

be

really

clear
.

If

you're

listening

to

this

and

you

think

that

there

are

people

out

there

who've

got

their

shit

together
,

no
,

no
,

no

Creating Your Life Purpose Compass

Brian Lemmerman
1:00:22

man
.

We

used

to

do

these

gatherings
,

these

tea

gatherings
,

and

we'd

have

30
,

40

people

sitting

in

our

living

room

in

a

big

circle

and

oftentimes

this

would

come

up

in

a

big

circle

and

oftentimes
,

like

this

would

come

up
,

that

people

would

say

that

to

certain

people

in

the

group

oh
,

it

sounds

like

you

really

got

it

all

together

and

all

right
,

everybody

stop
,

raise

your

hand

if

you've

got

your

shit

together
.

And
,

dude
,

nobody

would

raise

their

hand
.

Nobody

that

I've

ever

met

has

had

their

shit

together
,

including

me
.

Brian Lemmerman
1:00:47

Even

today
,

we're

still

I

mean
,

we're

this

is

the

second

economic

depression

that

I'm

weathering

as

a

business

person
.

We're

still

figuring

this

out
.

Yeah
,

I

get

what's

valuable

in

the

marketplace
.

That's

a

good

piece

of

knowledge

to

have
,

but

it's

not

everything
.

I

think

what

we've

been

talking

about

this

whole

time

is

being

really

clear

on

your

value

system

and

your

skill

set
,

that

you

have

to

contribute

and

if

there

is

a

specific

kind

of

person

or

business

that

you

can

help

solve

a

specific

kind

of

problem

with

your

skills

and

your

set

of

values

that

are

compatible

with

theirs
.

That's

where

the

magic

happens
.

And

like

that

formula

using

your

skills

and

your

values

to

help

others

that

you

relate

with
.

Brian Lemmerman
1:01:35

That

formula

took

me

over

a

decade

to

figure

out
,

through

all

of

these

ups

and

downs
,

and

so

then

I

started

thinking

okay
,

I

want

to

teach

how

to

actually

come

to

that

conclusion

and

get

at

least

that

part

of

your

life

figured

out

before

you

go

and

waste

the

next

10

years

trying

to

build

a

business

that's

not

going

to

work

and

that

you're

going

to

hate

right
,

or

pursuing

a

job

that

you're

going

to

devote

your

life

to

and

you're

going

to

be

miserable
.

So
,

like
,

how

do

you

get

clear

on

who

you

are

beforehand
?

So

I

put

together

this
,

this

thing
.

It's

a

free

thing
.

You

can

get

it

on

my

website
.

You

go

to

inner

senseicom

slash

compass
.

Brian Lemmerman
1:02:11

I

call

it

the

Life

Purpose

Compass
.

It's

a

free

PDF

that

you

can

download

and

it

walks

you
,

step

by

step
,

through

the

process

of

identifying

your

values
,

identifying

your

skills
,

identifying

who

you

can

best

serve

and

how
,

and

then

ranking

all

of

these

different

activities

that

you

love

doing
,

that

you're

good

at

in

terms

of

how

you

might

be

able

to

monetize

them
,

and

then

also

ranking

the

activities

that

you

love

doing
,

that

you're

good

at
,

in

terms

of

how

you

might

be

able

to

monetize

them
,

and

then

also

ranking

the

activities

that

you

should

no

longer

be

doing

and

how

what

those

take

away

from

you
,

and

it
,

basically
,

it

gives

you

a

direction

of

like

okay
,

pursue

this
,

stop

doing

this
.

Very

simply
,

and

so

you

could

very

well

Create

your

purpose

for

the

next

decade

out

of

a

10-minute

exercise
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
1:02:54

And

I

think

that's

what

I

was

alluding

to

when

I

said

things

figured

out
.

Is

that
,

essentially
,

when

you've

got

that

equation
,

when

you

understand

that

equation
,

that

is

the

recipe

for

your

North

Star
?

Essentially
,

that
,

that

direction
,

that

the

direction

of

travel
?

Because

there's

nothing

worse

than

having

that

confusion

of

should

I

go

that

way
,

should

I

serve

that

client
?

Um
,

you

just

end

up

sort

of

like

a

scattergun

approach

where

you
,

you're

totally

unfocused

and

it

just

it's

just

so

exhausting
,

isn't

it

you
?

But

it's

so

liberating

when

you

understand

that

actually

you

know

what

I

get

on

with

this

guy
,

or

these

people
,

this

group

of

people
,

they

really

get

me
,

or

I

really

understand

what

this

person's

all

about
.

And

I

think

that

is

what

I

suppose

I

was

saying

when

you've

got

things

figured

out
.

Yeah
,

and

it's

like

you're

hip

to

this

also

right
,

that

is

what

I

suppose

I

was

saying

when

you

got

things

figured

out
,

yeah
,

yeah
,

and

it's

like

you're

hip

to

this

also
,

right
.

Brian Lemmerman
1:03:55

So
,

like

you

just

mentioned
,

if

you're

shooting

all

over

the

place

trying

to

get

this

client

here
,

do

this

kind

of

thing

here
.

If

you

are

scattered

for

lack

of

a

better

term

if

you

are

quote

unquote

all

over

the

place
,

it

can

be

exhausting
.

And

the

reason

it's

exhausting

is

not

because

you're

working

hard

and

not

because

you're

spending

a

lot

of

hours
.

The

reason

it's

exhausting

is

because

you

are

constantly

engaging

in

activities

that

don't

directly

align

with

your

values
,

and

as

soon

as

you

narrow

down

your

activities

with

your

value

system
,

you

could

work

for

days
,

for

weeks
,

for

months

on

something

and

just

be

lit

up

and

enthusiastic

and

excited

and

relaxed

at

the

same

time

and

you

become

this

kind

of

person
.

Brian Lemmerman
1:04:39

that's

magnetic
.

People

want

to

know

what

you're

smoking
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
1:04:43

And

you're

like

I

don't

need

to

smoke

anything

anymore
.

Brian Lemmerman
1:04:45

man

Like

I

am

good
,

let

me

tell

you

what

I'm

up

to
,

because

this

is

what

I

care

about
,

and

it's

true
,

and

I

think

there

are
,

and

it's

true
,

yeah
,

right
,

and

I

think

there

are

many

parts

of

this
.

Brian Lemmerman
1:04:56

My

meditation

practice

is

so

essential

for

grounding

me

in

the

morning

and

clearing

my

mind
,

because
,

I

will

admit
,

sometimes

when

I

wake

up

I

get

so

excited

about

shit

that

I'm

doing

that

it's

hard

to

just

start

the

day

at

neutral
.

Brian Lemmerman
1:05:12

I

like

to

start

at

neutral
,

to

be

grounded

so

that

I

can

create

from

nothing
,

so

that

I

can

create

my

path

every

day
,

as

opposed

to

waking

up

and

worrying

about

what

I

didn't

finish

the

day

before

and

then
,

all

of

a

sudden
,

my

day

is

hectic
.

I

think

that

is

so

important
,

and

meditation

is

also

really

important

for

reflecting

on

who

you

are
,

and

if

you

can

pay

attention

to

those

persistent

thoughts
,

you'll

notice

that

they

repeat

themselves
.

80

to

90

percent

of

the

thoughts

that

you

have

are

the

same

thoughts

that

you

had

yesterday
,

and

so

it's

a

really

good

indicator

of

what

it

is

that

you're

worried

about
,

and

those

things

point

to

your

values
.

They'll

actually

tell

you

whether

you

are

aligned

with

your

values

or

not
.

You

can

ask

yourself

what

do

I

really

care

about

what's

important

to

me

and

I

could

say

well
.

My

highest

values

are

service
,

creativity
,

community

right

and

and

sharing

knowledge

and

wisdom
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
1:06:05

If

I'm

not

engaged

in

those

things
,

I'm

not

happy

maybe

we

should

get

get

all

this

on

a

zoom

chat
.

Maybe

we

should

have

a

zoom

we
?

Yeah
,

I

think

we

should

have

this

on

Lead Generation and Persuasive Marketing

Alex Wilson-Campbell
1:06:17

a

call
.

Brian
,

I'm

kind

of

digressing

a

little

bit

on

this

podcast
,

but

why

not

put

it

out

there
?

Maybe

there's

some

people

who

are

listening

that

may

want

to
.

Um
,

you

know
,

uh
,

understand

a

bit

more

about

this

brian's

mindfulness
.

Um
,

how

brian

goes

about

his

meditation
.

I

know

I

am

for

one
,

and

maybe

we

could

even

introduce

it

to

the
,

to

the

um

remote

work

life

group
,

who

knows
?

But

maybe

we'll

have

a

discussion

after

the
,

after

the

show
,

brian
,

about

this
,

because

this

is

something

that

is

just

like

foundational
,

isn't

it
?

It's

the

foundation

of

yeah
,

of
,

uh
,

of
,

of

launching

your

career
,

of

launch

or

relaunching

your

career
,

launching

your

business
,

all

those

sorts

of

things

you

know
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
1:06:59

So

yeah

it's

really

interesting
.

But

now

you're

at

a

situation

where

you

how

do

you

go

about

getting

your

clients

at

the

moment
?

Then

let's

talk

about
,

about
,

I

suppose
,

some

of

the
,

the

um
,

I

suppose

the

hard

stuff

we've

talked

about
,

I

suppose

that

the

the

meta

skills
,

for

want

of

a

better

expression
.

But

what

about

the

um
,

the

hard

stuff
,

like

Google

and

all

that

sort

of

stuff

and

landing

pages

and

all

that

good

stuff
?

Brian Lemmerman
1:07:29

Like

the

real

digital

marketing
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
1:07:30

The

real

digital

marketing

yeah
.

Brian Lemmerman
1:07:36

Yeah
,

so

what

we

alluded

to

just

a

few

moments

ago

where

I

shared

that

free

downloadable

PDF
,

this

is

something

that

I

created

that's

for

free

and

it

generates

leads

for

my

mindfulness

teaching

business
.

So

I

actually

do

work

with

young

entrepreneurs

who

are

on

this

same

path

and

I

look

back

at

the

kind

of

person

I

was

five

or

10

years

ago

and

I

say

I

can

help

you

completely

fast-forward

that

process
.

I

can

help

you

ground

yourself
,

get

clear

on

your

values
,

determine

your

direction

and

help

you

shatter

the

fears

that

get

in

the

way

of

that
.

And

so

I

do

get

leads

from

that

and

so

Like

point-blank

when
,

when

you

download

that

PDF

you

put

in

your

email
,

then

you

get

a

series

of

emails
,

then

they

make

an

offer

in

the

emails
.

So

I

have

a

program

that

when

I

work

one-on-one

with

people
,

depending

on

what

they

need

either

eight

weeks

or

twelve

weeks

To

get

you

from

point

a

lost

and

confused

and

overwhelmed

to

point

B
,

confident
,

assured

and

running

in

a

direction
,

actually

building

something

that's

of

value

to

you

and

other

people
.

So

that's

on

that

side
.

Brian Lemmerman
1:08:36

The

other

lead

generator

that

I

have

is

a

podcast
.

So

I

mentioned

earlier
,

I

have

a

podcast

it's

called

Mindfulness

of

Doom

where

we

actually

approach

these

sorts

of

like
,

these

fears
,

anxieties
,

discomforts
,

all

the

things

that

get

in

the

way

of

us

being

our

best

selves
,

that

people

don't

necessarily

want

to

look

at

because

they

don't

feel

very

good
.

But

it's

totally

uncomfortable

to

look

at

your

fears

and

the

things

that

you

hate

doing

and

like
.

But

to

actually

make

friends

or

to

be

partners

with

that

shadow

side

of

yourself

is

so

essential

for

being

a

whole

human

being
.

There's

this

positivity

movement

where

people

are

like

no
,

no
,

love

and

light
,

just

chill
,

everybody

relaxes
,

everything's

good

all

the

time
.

I'm

going

to

look

for

the

silver

lining

in

every

situation
.

Dude
,

you

can't

have

a

roller

coaster

that

always

goes

up
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
1:09:30

Of

course
.

Brian Lemmerman
1:09:31

Right
,

life

is

like

that

and

so

you're

going

to

have

it

Every

day
.

You

could

feel

like

crap
,

and

that's

great
,

because

that

indicates

that

there's

a

challenge

which

is

an

opportunity

for

growth
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
1:09:44

Of

course
.

Brian Lemmerman
1:09:45

Yeah
,

but

if

you're

not

willing

to

face

that

discomfort
,

you'll

never

see

the

opportunity

and

it'll

be

a

lot

harder

to

overcome

the

challenge
.

So

the

podcast

is

about

that

and

your

existence

in

this

human

body

that

goes

through

this
,

and

so

we

get

leads

for

that
.

And

then
,

right

now
,

what

we're

doing

is

we're

putting

together

a

30-day

micro

course

mastermind

for

entrepreneurs

who

already

have

a

premium

offering
,

for

entrepreneurs

who

already

have

a

premium

offering
.

This

is

something

that

is

so

relevant

right

now

in

this

post-corona

era

where

businesses

need

to

move

themselves

online
,

and

one

of

the

best

ways

to

generate

leads

online

is

to

teach

for

free
,

to

just

put

your

knowledge

out

there

as

a

way

to

add

value

to

your

community
,

which

becomes

your

customer

base
.

Your

community

expands

or

narrows
,

depending

on

who

it

is

that

you

can

ideally

help

with

their

problems
,

and

you

create

a

micro

course

within

30

days

that

people

can

actually

pay

for

and

learn

essential

skills

or

solutions

to

their

specific

problems

from

learn

essential

skills

or

solutions

to

their

specific

problems

from
,

and

at

the

end

of

the

course
,

you

put

a

link

to

your

Calendly

or

to

your

Acuity

scheduler

and

they

can

book

a

call

with

you

a

free

30-minute

or

one-hour

call

with

you

to

then

get

on

the

phone

and

you

get

to

work

with

them

one-on-one

on
.

Okay
,

here's

how

I

think

I

can

resolve

your

problem

in

your

business
.

Would

you

like

to

work

together

and

you

make

an

offer
?

Brian Lemmerman
1:11:17

And

so

that's

another

way

of

generating

leads

with

people

that

you

don't

necessarily

know

through

word

of

mouth
.

So

there

are

lots

of

ways

to

do

it
.

If

you

want

to

talk

about

specific

technologies
,

um
,

you

can
.

You

can
,

of

course
,

promote

any

products

or

service

you

have

using

things

like

facebook

ads

and

google

ads
.

Um
,

I

I

will

admit

I'm

not

good

with

Google

ads
.

I

find

like

the

metrics

and

the

graphs

and

the

little

drop

downs

and

things
.

I

can

do

it
.

I

don't

like

doing

it
.

Yeah
,

I

am

not

happy

when

I

do

it
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
1:11:45

That's

a

proper
.

I

think

there's

people

that

dabble

in

it
,

yeah
,

but

it's

not

the

kind

of

it's

not

something

to

dabble

in
.

It's

something

that

you

either

know

pretty

well
,

know

well
,

or

you

get

somebody

else

to

do

it

for

you
.

Right
,

it's

one

of

those

things
.

Yeah
,

and

facebook

probably

is
.

Put

the

barrier

to

entry

with

facebook

is

probably

a

little

bit

lower
,

although

facebook

in

itself

there's
.

Brian Lemmerman
1:12:09

There's

lots

of

things

facebook

blueprint

can

teach

you

or

just

actually

doing

Facebook
,

but

I

don't

think

Google

ads

is

something

that

you

can

learn

as

quickly

as

you

might

be

able

to

learn

something

like

Facebook

yeah
,

facebook

is

simpler
,

but

what

I

would

recommend

if

you're

new

to

digital

advertising

is

get

on

Instagram
,

like

Instagram

is

the

easiest

way

to

promote

content

is

through

Instagram
,

because

you

can

simply

make

a

post

and

promote

it

through

Instagram

and

as

long

as

your

Instagram

business

account

is

linked

to

your

Facebook

ads

account
,

then

you

can

pay

for

your

Instagram

ads
,

because
,

whether

you

know

it

or

not
,

facebook

owns

Instagram

and

they

use

the

same

platform
.

Brian Lemmerman
1:12:53

But

the

process

of

just

creating

a

post

and

then

promoting

that

as

long

as

you

have

a

clear

call

to

action

and

what

you

write

is

compelling

for

your

audience
,

you'll

get

clicks
.

And

as

long

as

your

content

is

consistent

throughout

the

entire

process

from

your

ad

to

your

landing

page
,

to

your

follow-up

emails
,

to

your

offer
,

to

even

the

service

that

you

offer

you

will

be

successful
.

And

what

I

will

say

about

this

is

there

is

one

skill

that

I

see

so

many

digital

marketers

missing

when

it

comes

to

promoting

either

their

own

products

or

services

or

other

people's

products

and

services
,

and

that

is

the

skill

of

persuasive

writing
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
1:13:35

And

I

suppose

that

is

a

big

thing
.

Copyright

again

you

get

people

dabbling

in

copywriting
,

don't

you
?

Brian Lemmerman
1:13:41

Yeah
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
1:13:42

Whereas

I

mean

copywriting

is

it's

not

easy
.

If

you're

not

naturally

sort

of

inclined

to

writing
,

writing

persuasively
,

then

it's

not

something

to

dabble

in
,

it's

something

to

hire

out

to

somebody

else
.

And

even

you

know
,

going

back

to

values

again

and

going

back

to

mission

and

all

that

sort

of

thing
,

if

you

can
,

um
,

intertwine

your

which

is

not
,

again
,

it's

not

easy
.

If

you

can

intertwine

your

deepest

values
,

your

deepest

thoughts
,

beliefs
,

into

a

facebook

ad

or

a
,

you

know

your
,

landing

page
,

then

it's

going

to

hook
,

hook

the

people

in

that

you're

looking

to
,

to

capture

in

into

your
,

you

know
,

into

your

email

sequence
,

your

funnel
,

your

calendly
.

So

that
,

I

think
,

is

a

lesson

in

itself
,

a

whole

web

class

in

itself
,

wouldn't

you

say
,

brian
?

Brian Lemmerman
1:14:34

yeah
,

yeah
,

that's
,

it's

a
.

It's

a

huge

skill
,

um
,

that

even

if

you

spend

a

few

hours

learning

the

basics

of

it
,

it

will

save

you

years

of

struggle

and

heartache
.

Um
,

and

what

I

could

say

about

it
?

What

I

could

say

about

copywriting

is

this

If

you

suck

at

writing
,

you

can

still

be

a

good

copywriter
,

because

copywriting

is

less

about

sounding

good

or

getting

the

grammar

right
.

It's

more

about

listening

to

the

specific

pains

and

problems

that

your

target

market

has

and

speaking

to

that

pain

and

offering

a

solution
,

a

band-aid

if

you

will
,

and

the
,

as

the

saying

goes

in

sales
.

Let

me
,

let

me

rewind

a

bit
.

Brian Lemmerman
1:15:21

When

it

comes

to

persuasive

writing
,

you're

not

trying

to

convince

people

to

buy

something

they

don't

want

or

need
.

It's

um
,

I

think

marketing

and

sales

gets

a

bad

rap
.

They're

two

different

things
,

by

the

way
,

and

people

tend

to

lump

them

in

together
.

The

association

that

most

people

have

is

that

sleazy

car

salesman

that

knows

there's

a

problem

with

the

car

but

tries

to

sell

it

to

you

anyway
.

If

you're

doing

that
,

if

you're

trying

to

convince

people

to

get

something
,

to

buy

something

that

they

don't

want

or

need
,

or

if

you're

trying

to

bamboozle

people
,

you

are

not

going

to

succeed
.

They'll

see
,

yeah
,

they'll

know
.

Maybe

you'll

get

one

deal

in

the

short

term
,

but

it

is

not

going

to

go

well

for

you

If

you

are

inauthentic

in

your

business

practices

Authentic Marketing and Values in Business

Brian Lemmerman
1:16:07

.

Brian Lemmerman
1:16:07

It

just

indicates

who

you

are

as

a

person
,

because

I

believe

that

there

is

no

separation

between

work

and

life
,

like

how

you

do

one

thing

is

how

you

do

everything
.

So

when

you

are

writing

content

or

if

you're

making

a

video

for

somebody
,

you

are

being

completely

open
,

genuine

and

transparent

about

what

works

and

what

doesn't

work
.

But

mostly

you're

speaking

to

the

specific

problem

that

that

person

has

and

how

you

are

qualified
,

or

how

you

have

something

that

is

available

to

them
,

or

how

what

they've

been

looking

for
,

what

they

didn't

know

they

were

looking

for
,

actually

exists

to

solve

that

problem
,

depending

on

where

they

are
.

If

they

know

there's

a

solution
,

then

you

say
,

hey
,

there's

this

solution

and

it

does

this

and

this
,

and

they

go

perfect
,

I

want

that

and

they

buy

and

it's

great
.

Brian Lemmerman
1:16:52

And

as

a

marketer
,

you're

doing

a

service
.

Because

you're

connecting

a

product

or

service

with

the

person

who's

looking

for

it
,

you're

doing

a

good

deed
.

They're

willing

to

pay

money

for

it

because

it's

valuable

for

them
,

and

so

money

is

nothing

but

energy

and

it

measures

an

exchange

of

value
.

So

if

you

offer

something

of

value
,

you

get

handsomely

rewarded

for

it
,

right
,

you're

doing

a

good

deed
.

If
,

on

the

other

hand
,

if

you're

trying

to

lie

and

cheat

people

or

in

the

case

of

um
,

like

many

people

who

pursue

jobs

or

clients
,

just

because

they

want

to

get

the

job

or

they

just

want

to

get

the

client

or

they

just

want

to

get

the

money
,

like

yeah
,

I

gotta

go

get

that

money
,

that's

not

going

to

work

for

you
,

not

at

all
.

It's

not

going

to

work
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
1:17:36

People

are

going

to

see

through

it
.

They

do

it's
,

and

that's

when

you

get

people

even

probably

going

online

to

complain

that

they

didn't

get

what

you

promised

them

or

yeah
,

there

was

something

quite

not

quite

right

or

something

you

know
.

So

it's

all

about

being

true

to

yourself

and

it

goes

back

to

this

whole

conversation
,

in

fact
,

which

has

formed

and

has

turned

into

one

about

values
,

which

is

essentially

it's

it's

the

root

of

generating

leads

for

your

business

or

whatever
.

You

know

so

many

different

things

that

we've

talked

about

throughout

this

podcast
.

And
,

brian
,

whatever

you

know
,

so

many

different

things

that

we've

talked

about
,

uh

throughout

this

podcast
.

And
,

brian
,

I

just

really

wanted

to

say

thank

you

for

your

time

uh

on

the

podcast

today
.

It's

been

enlightening
.

It's

been

shocking

in

terms

of

your

story

about

uh

the

lexus

and

all

that
,

but

I'm

obviously

a

very

happy

ending

to

it

and

really

excited

to

see

um

and

stay

in

touch

with

you

and

have

conversations

with

you
,

maybe

on

another

podcast

or

on

a

Zoom

chat

somewhere
.

Sure
,

let's

keep

going

with

it
.