RWL226 How To Create a Bonded Team Without a Physical Office

Building a Successful Remote Business

Alex Wilson-Campbell
0:00

Hello

everybody
.

It's

Alex

again

from

the

Remote

Work

Life

podcast
.

I

hope

you're

all

doing

well
.

I

have

a

wonderful

guest

with

me

today
,

somebody

I've

been

watching

for

a

little

while
,

matthew

Stibber
.

He

runs

Articulate

Marketing

and

Articulate

deals

especially

with

B2B

marketing

for

tech

businesses
,

especially

with

B2B

marketing

for

tech

businesses
.

So

they're

all

things

websites

and

leads

and

content

and

I

thought

this

would

be

ideal

for

you
,

because

I

know

that

you're

in

the

world

of

tech
,

you're

in

the

world

of

digital
,

and

who

better

to

ask

than

somebody

who

is

in

the

world

of

tech

and

digital

themselves

and

has

built

a

successful

and

sorry
,

is

building

a

successful

business
,

and

a

successful

remote

business

at

that
?

So
,

matthew
,

I

really

want

to

thank

you

for

for

joining

me

today
.

Thanks

so

much
.

Matthew Stibbe
0:51

I'm

delighted

to

be

here
,

alex
.

Thank

you

for

asking

me

pleasure
,

pleasure
,

pleasure
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
0:55

And

you

know

I've

got

a

few

questions

for

you
.

We

may

not

have

time

for

everything

because

I

had

so

many

questions
,

but
,

um
,

I

wanted

to

find

out

more

about

you
,

about

your

business
,

about

how

you

got

it

all

set

up
,

and

I

think

the

question

I

always

normally

ask

at

the

beginning

is

can

you

just

talk

me

through

your

journey
,

how

you

came

to

be
,

uh
,

running

such

a
,

such

a

great

business
?

Matthew Stibbe
1:19

I

think

that's

a

very

um

glowing

introduction
.

I

wasn't

sure

if

you

were

referring

to

me
,

so

okay
.

Well
,

right
,

I

articulate

marketing

20

people
,

remote

working
,

specializing

in

B2B

technology
.

How

did

I

end

up

running

that

business
?

Well
,

I'll

tell

you

a

funny

story
.

In

the

90s
,

when

I

was

much

younger

than

I

am

now
,

I

set

up

and

ran

a

computer

games

company

and

it

got

to

about

70-something

people

and

I

sold

it

in

2000
.

And

I

left

the

business
.

I

left

the

office

on

the

day
,

I

signed

the

papers
,

sat

in

my

car

and

went

right
.

I

am

never

going

to

employ

anyone

ever

again

and

I'm

never

going

to

have

an

office

ever

again
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
2:09

Famous

last

words
.

Matthew Stibbe
2:10

Well
,

the

funny

thing

is
,

I

kept

one

of

the

promises

and

I

broke

the

other
.

I

have

employees

now
.

Lovely
,

lovely
,

lovely
,

lovely

colleagues
,

I

don't

have

an

office

and

so
,

if

you

want

to

know

how

kind

of

the

germ

and

the

genesis

of

articulate

it

was

really

out

of

that
,

that

moment

where

I

didn't

want

to

have

an

office

and

I

wanted

to

do

something
.

Why

it

could

be

work

from

home

initially

and
,

and

as

the

company

has

grown

in

the

last

four

or

five

years
,

work

from

home

and

let

other

people

work

shops

or

whatever

they

want

to

do
.

Um
,

so

the

reason

they

didn't

want

to

have

an

office

was

it

was

very

expensive

and
,

um
,

you

know
,

we

had

10
,

11
,

000

square

feet

and

we

had
,

you

know
,

receptionists
,

cleaners

and

air

conditioning

and

maintenance

and

security

people

and

all

this

stuff

rates

bloody

rates
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
3:04

Oh

yeah
.

Matthew Stibbe
3:06

Wiping

checks

all

the

time
.

But

there's

sort

of

a

hidden

cost

to

it

as

well
,

which

is

that

you

have

to

sort

of

hire

people

who

can

get

to

that

office
,

which

means

suddenly

you

can't

hire

the

best

people
,

you

have

to

hire

the

best

people

you

know

who

live

within

a

reasonable

commute
,

and

that

was

a

limiting

factor
.

So

I

walked

out

of

that

games

business

and

I

thought
,

right
,

I'm

not

going

to

hire

people

and

I'm

not

going

to

have

an

office
.

And

then

I

thought
,

what

the

hell

do

I

do

now
?

I

hadn't

had

any

thought

about

it
.

I

had

started

the

business

when

I

was

18

and

I

had

not

really

a

moment

thinking

that

I

thought

they'd

carry

me

out

of

my

coffin
.

Matthew Stibbe
3:42

So

I

sat

there

and

I

thought
,

well
,

I've

solved

this
,

I've

got

nothing

to

do
.

And

I

was

active
,

decisively

and

creatively

and

imaginatively
.

I

went

and

had

lunch

and

then

I

went

for

a

walk
.

I

thought

about

it

for

a

bit
.

I

ended

up

spending

the

next

couple

of

years

sort

of

as

a

bit

of

a

dilettante

writer

and

I

wrote

for

Wired

and

Popular

Science

and

Director

and

I

learned

to

fly

and

I

started

reviewing

business

jets

for

an

American

magazine

which

is
,

you

know
,

nice

work

if

you

can

get

it
.

Matthew Stibbe
4:14

And
,

off

the

back

of

that
,

after

a

couple

of

years
,

started

getting

the

occasional

corporate

job
,

including

one

less

than

with

Microsoft
,

and

Microsoft

has

been

a

client

since

2003
.

And

it

started

with

me

setting

my

games

company

and

thinking

it

would

be

a

luck

to

become

a

writer
.

So

that's

the

genesis

of

the

company
.

How

did

it

become

how

it

is

today
?

Four

or

five

years

ago

I

broke

the

first

promise

and

I

hired

somebody
.

She's

my

chief

happiness

officer

now
,

as

she

is

today
,

but

when

I

hired

her

she

was

my

pa
?

Um
,

and

so

her

career

has

developed

over

the

last

seven
,

eight

years
?

Um
,

as

the

company

has

grown
.

Matthew Stibbe
5:00

and

and

then

I

started

hiring

writers
,

and

you

know

now

here

we

are

lots

of

people

doing

lots

of

clever

techie

writing

and

marketing

stuff

for

tech

companies
.

Does

that

help
?

Is

that

a

good

answer
?

Alex Wilson-Campbell
5:10

that's

brilliant
,

that

is

great
,

and

I

think

the

genesis

genesis
,

if

it

were
,

as

I

can't

say

the

word

genesis

of

it

all

is

very

similar

to

many

other

people

I've

interviewed
.

Actually
,

in

terms

of
,

you

know
,

you

want

to

give

opportunity

for

people

who

aren't

in

the

immediate

vicinity
.

Um
,

you

want

to

be

able

to
,

you

know
,

work

from

home

as

well
,

work
,

I

suppose
,

on

your

terms
,

for

for

much
,

for

much

of

it

and

you

want

to

provide

a

good

service
,

and

it

seems

you've

been

doing

that

since

2003

now
,

and

has

that

always

been

remotely
?

Matthew Stibbe
5:46

Yes
,

the

initial

freelance

writing

and

journalism

was

all

remote
.

I've

always

worked

from

home

since

2000
.

So
,

yeah
,

all

remote
.

We

don't

have

an

office

at

all

and

everybody

who

works

at

Articulate

now

is

remote

and

they're

all

over

the

place
.

I

have

a

colleague

in

Bucharest
,

another

in

Vienna
,

another

one

who

seems

to

flit

around

Canada

quite

a

lot

but

spends

a

lot

of

his

time

in

the

UK
,

some

up

in

Scotland
,

some

in

Wales
,

all

over
,

and

I

think

that's

rather

lovely

and

they're

an

amazing
,

amazing

bunch

of

people
.

And

here's

here's

the

funny

thing
.

We
,

we
,

as
,

as

the

business

has

grown

and

we've

kind

of

got

a

little

bit

more
,

I

would

say
,

reputation
,

but

a

little

bit

more

to

offer

and

a

little

bit

of

a

better

story

to

tell

for

ourselves
.

It's

incredibly

appealing

this

remote

working

thing
.

I

mean

we

get

um
.

Last

week
,

last

round

of

in

intern

adverts

we

ran

last

intern

recruitment

we

had

650

applications
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
6:47

Wow
,

and

is

that

typical

for

you
?

Because

I

mean

again
,

that's

something

that

I

get

from

speaking

to

lots

of

managers

like

yourself
,

lots

of

business

owners

like

yourself

is

that

when

you

put

out

an

application
,

people
,

you

just

get

inundated
?

Matthew Stibbe
7:02

Yeah
,

yeah
,

absolutely
,

I

think
,

because

people

some

people

doesn't

suit

everyone

want

to

work

in

this

remote

way
,

want

to

have

that

flexibility
.

I

think

for

us
,

it's

partly

that
,

partly

also
,

I

think
,

as

we

have

grown
,

we've

put

a

lot

more

emphasis

on

our

company

culture

and

I'm

beginning

to

think

that

is

now

coming

across

in

the

way

we

talk

about

ourselves

and

some

of

the

things

we

do
.

For

example
,

we

have

a

chief

happiness

officer

out
,

you

know
,

in

a

company

of

20

people
.

That's

a

very

deliberate

investment

in

around

motivation

and

engagement
.

And

um
,

we

we

became

a

b

corp

last

year
,

which

means

that

we're

making

a

commitment

to

our

community

and

our

stakeholders

and

to

the

environment
,

as

well

as

to

the

bottom

line
.

Matthew Stibbe
7:50

Obviously
,

it's

the

only

way

to

care

about

the

bottom

line
,

but

people

want

to

belong

to

something

that's

sort

of

aligned

with

their

values
,

something

that

is

going

to

let

them

have

some

flexibility

and

freedom
.

And

the

next

thing

that

we're

working

on

we've

been

working

on

this

all

year

is

towards

investors

and

freedom
.

And

the

next

thing

that

we're

working

on

we've

been

working

on

this

all

year

is

towards

investors

and

people
.

So

we

want

to

become

investors

and

people

certified

by

the

end

of

the

financial

year

and

what

that

talks

to

is

making

investment

in

people's

careers

and

in

their

development

and

their

personal

growth
.

So

I

think

that

all

these

things

interrelated
,

but

it

helps

us
,

it

helps

attract

people

and

it

helps
,

you

know
,

build

this

amazing

culture

and

how

do

you

do

I

mean

600

applications

on
,

if

that's

like

a

whole

lot

of

applications
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
8:36

How

do

you

deal

with

so

many

um

applications

in

one

go
?

Matthew Stibbe
8:40

it's

very

hard

because

you
,

you
,

you

want

to

give

everyone

a

fair

shake

of

the

stick

and

you

also
,

you

know
,

in

a

small

company

you

don't

have

a

lot

of

hours
.

I

mean
,

if

you've

got

to

make

money

and

do

client

work

and

stuff
,

everyone's

working

at

full

capacity
.

So

if

I

say
,

you

know
,

here
,

review

these

200

CVs
,

oh
,

that's

going

to

take

me

a

few

hours

Dividing

up

the

labor
.

I

do

a

lot

of

CVs
.

Oh
,

that's

going

to

take

me

a

few

hours

Dividing

up

the

labor
.

I

do

a

lot

of

CV

reviews
.

I

think

perhaps

I've

got

quite

an

eye

for

it

now
.

Matthew Stibbe
9:11

In

my

life

I've

seen

so

many

you

develop

some

heuristics

about

CVs

that

are

obviously

inappropriate
.

I

mean
,

a

fair

few

of

them

are

from

we

do

try

to

recruit

in

the

UK

or

EU
.

So

US

applicants

or

Australian

applicants
.

If

that's

too

far
,

it's

too

difficult
.

There's

a

few

simple

rules

like

that
.

But

once

we

get

to

a

long

list

and

I

suppose

we

had

35
,

40

on

the

long

list

we

had

to

hire

an

HR

consultancy

to

just

pre-screen

them

and

get

the

list

down

to

a

manageable

number

for

interviews
.

And

because

we

interview

very

intensively
,

we

give

people

homework

and

then

they

meet

five
,

six

people

over

a

course

of

multiple

interviews
.

That's

the

real

time

commitment

for

us
.

So

we

have

to

really

be

sure
.

But

we

had

the

most

amazing

candidates
.

I

astonish
.

Matthew Stibbe
10:04

We

had

a

woman

who

we

hired

in

here
,

um
,

who'd

done

a

ted

talk
,

for

example
,

wow
,

and

she

was

just

looking

for

a

second
,

looking

to

explore

a

second

career

in

marketing

and

writing
,

and
,

and
,

despite

being

having

been

incredibly

successful

in

her

educational

career
,

just

said

well
,

you

know
,

I

will

come

and

work

as

an

intern

for

you

and

I'll

learn

something

new
,

and

if

it

works

for

everyone
,

I'll

stay
.

Well
,

you

know
,

I

will

come

and

work

as

an

intern

for

you

and

I'll

learn

something

new
,

and

if

it

works

for

everyone
,

I'll

stay
.

And

I

think

that's

the

sort

of

thing

that

it's

not

just
,

oh
,

we

can

work

with

somebody

in

Bucharest

or

Birmingham

or

Glasgow
.

It's

also
,

you

know
,

for

someone

like

her

who

has

young

children
,

who's

looking

for

a

change

of

career
,

looking

for

something

that's

a

little

bit

more

interesting

and

quirky
,

flexible
.

It

works

really

well

for

her
.

We've

got

something

to

offer

for

her
.

Matthew Stibbe
10:48

Another

example

we

just

took

on

a

junior

consultant
,

our

sort

of

word

for

salesperson

in

some

ways
,

although

it's

more

complicated

than

that
.

Anyway
,

his

life
,

his

passion

is

parachuting
.

He's

a

parachute

instructor

and

he

lives

now

in

the

Netherlands
,

although

when

we

hired

him

he

was

in

Italy
.

And

what

he

does
,

I'm

serious
,

it's

extraordinary
.

He

works

all

morning
.

He

bases

himself

at

an

airport
,

sits

in

their

cafe
,

works

all

morning

and

at

lunchtime

to

relax
,

goes

and

does

a

couple

of

parachute

jumps
,

and

then

he

works

all

afternoon

and

then

just

to

wind

down

at

the

end

of

the

day

he

goes

up

and

does

another

couple

of

parachute

jumps
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
11:33

Well
,

I'll

tell

you

what
.

So

go

ahead
,

Matthew
.

Go

ahead
.

Matthew Stibbe
11:37

No
,

I

just

think

that's

the

most

extraordinary

thing

imaginable
.

But

that

works

for

him
.

There

he

is

in

a

Dutch

airfield

doing

his

job
,

parachuting
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
11:47

Well
,

I'll

tell

you

what
.

I

always

ask

the

question

on

my

podcast

what's

the

most

unusual

or

exotic

place

that

you've

worked
?

Well
,

the

most

unusual

place

I've

heard

so

far

is

the

Norwegian

fjords
,

but

I

think

that

what

you

just

said
,

that

tops

it
,

that

takes

the

prize
.

I

think

somebody

who

what

you

just

said
,

that

tops

it
,

that

that's

um
,

that

takes

the

prize
.

Matthew Stibbe
12:06

I

think

somebody

who

goes

parachuting

um

on

lunchtime

another

reason

how

we've

hired

um

has

splits

her

time

between

Guernsey

and

Valencia

in

Spain
,

and

just

you

know

the

fact

that

she

she

just

wants

to

spend

time

with

her

family

in

in

these

different

places

and

doesn't

want

to

come

to

London

to

work
.

Building Bonds in Remote Businesses

Matthew Stibbe
12:27

But

here's

the

thing

it's

not

all

remote
,

meaning

we

spend

quite

a

lot

of

time

and

effort

and

money

to

bring

everyone

together
.

Matthew Stibbe
12:38

So
,

there

are

regular

meetings

in

London
.

We

probably

have

six
,

eight

a

year
,

a

couple

of

days

each
.

Everybody

we

could

possibly

get

to

come

in

comes

in

and

joins

us
.

You

know

we

have

some

social

events
.

We

have

a

couple

of

days

of

training

and

discussion

and

planning

or

projects
.

So

we

try

very

hard

to

form

the

bonds

that

you

get

in

a

business

and

I

don't

think

it

would

save

us

any

money

if

we

we're

not

doing

it

to

save

money
.

I

think

we

spend

everything

we

would

spend

on

an

office

doing

all

this

other

stuff
,

having

Liz

and

having

the

meetings

and

things
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
13:18

Do

you

think

that's

I

mean
?

Because
,

again
,

that's

something

that

a

lot

of

remote

businesses

try

to

do
.

They

put

a

lot

of

effort

into

bringing

everybody

together

to

have

that

face-to-face

time
,

if

you

see

what

I

mean
.

But

is

that

something

that

you
,

um
,

you

think

is

perhaps

more

important

in

a

remote

business

as

opposed

to

a

co-located

business
?

Matthew Stibbe
13:41

I

think

it's

important

in

both

kinds

of

business

and

it's

one

of

my

regrets

that

I

didn't

do

it

more

at

intelligent

games

Games
,

to

be

honest

and

spend

more

time

as

a

company

together

rather

than

as

teams

or

as

management
.

If

you

run

a

business
,

you

spend

an

awful

lot

of

time

talking

to

the

same

people

team

leaders
,

your

bookkeeper
,

your

accountant
,

your

lawyer
,

this

sort

of

stuff
.

You

know

that

the
,

this

sort

of

stuff

and

and

what
.

What

the

company

meetings

allow

us

to

do

is

to
,

to

kind

of

work

and

meet

people

who

aren't

in

our

team
.

Matthew Stibbe
14:13

Yes
,

they

contact

group

um

and

I

think

that's

that's

very
,

very

valuable
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
14:18

It's

it's

sort

of

um

sparks

new

ideas

and

it's

a

great

way

to

get

to

know

each

other
.

And

I

think

another

thing

is

that
,

as

well

as

that
,

it's

working

remotely
.

You

don't

have

that

spontaneity
,

do

you
,

in

terms

of

conversation
.

Obviously
,

working

in

a

Colocate

situation
,

you

can
,

after

work
,

you

can

go

down

to

the

pub

or

you

can

ask

your

friends
,

you

know

who's

sitting

next

to

you
,

what's

the

time

or

whatever

it

is
.

How

else

do

you

get

to

to

sort

of

like

form

those

bonds

and

get

to

know

each

other
?

Matthew Stibbe
14:53

Liz

does

a

really

good

job

with

that
.

Matthew Stibbe
14:54

She

has

all

kinds

of

little

schemes
,

things

going

on
.

For

example
,

we

have

a

book

club
,

so

we

read

a

book

and

then

we

chat

about

it

on

Skype
,

well
,

on

Zoom
,

and

we

have

happy

half

hours
,

so

everybody
.

At

the

end

of

Friday

afternoon

people

go

and

get

a

drink

and

whatever

they

want

and

they

sit

in

front

of

their

computer

and

they

have

one

of

these

mosaic

boxes

of

everybody

talking

and

chatting

and

there's

a

little

bit

of

and

it's

surprising
,

I

deliberately

don't

join

very

many

of

them
,

not

because

I'm

antisocial
,

but

I

think

on

a

Friday

afternoon

they

probably

want

to

pitch

and

moan

about

it

and

I

don't

want

to

be

like

the

school

teacher

who

tries

to

be

cool

by

going

to

these

parties
,

you

know
.

But
,

um
,

I

go

to

a

few

of

them

and

the

people

quite

happily

sit

and

chat

for

hours

and

it's

really

funny

and

so

that

that's

a
,

that's

a

lovely

thing

that

happens
.

And
,

um
,

we
,

we

also

have

a

company

stand

up

every

Tuesday

morning
,

so

everybody's

on

that

call
,

that's

it's
.

It's

as

close

to

mandatory

as

we

get
.

So

there's

lots

of

opportunities

to

meet

people

and

do

things
.

Matthew Stibbe
16:01

Um
,

uh
,

both

video

conferencing

and

otherwise
.

But

we

also

have

slack
,

like

a

lot

of

companies
,

and

that

the

bits

of

slack

that

work

very

well

and

not

the

kind

of

you

know
,

businessy
,

messagey

bits
,

but

there's

the

sort

of

random

chatter

and

the

sort

of

nonsense

that

comes

up
.

That's

very

bonding
,

I

think
.

And

we

have

a

lovely

thing

that

emerged

spontaneously

called

the

validation

channel
.

Um
,

we

have

a

validation

center

we

had

a

prospect

trying

to

sell

to

about

three

years

ago
.

They

were

called

the

validation

center

and

what

they

did

was

they
,

you

know
,

hardware

and

software

testing
.

It

was

a

testing

company
.

Well
,

we

never

won

them

as

a

client
,

but

somebody

in

the

company

picked

up

on

this

name

and

set

up

a

slack

channel

called

validation
.

And

so

you

know
,

whenever

anyone

does

anything

nice
,

people

just

say

oh
,

you

know
,

well

done
,

maddie
,

you

did

this
.

Matthew Stibbe
16:51

Or

well

done
,

alex
,

you

did

that

and

it's

really

good
.

Or

thank

you

for

your

help
,

and

it's

not

me

making

that

happen
,

sort

of

topped

out
,

you

know
,

employee

of

the

month

and

all

that

stuff

incredibly

organic

and

spontaneous

and

and

I'm

enormously

proud

of

them

for

it
.

I

think

that

it's
.

It's

a

lovely
.

I

mean
,

I

think

this

is

one

of

the

things

that

I've

been

learning
,

because

I'm

an

old

fart

really
,

but

from

from

the
,

the
,

you

know

the

gen

x

types
,

um
,

that

work

in

the

company
.

They're

very

um

open

with

their

emotions

and

their

gratitude

and

their

respect

for

people
.

Like

you

know
,

it's
,

it's

rather

nice

I
,

I

like

that
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
17:29

So
,

yeah
,

some

of

the

things

well
,

I

I

think

you

mentioned

a

word

that

actually

sprung

to

mind
.

Uh
,

you

were

talking

just

now

organic
.

Everything

seems

in

your

business
,

to

happen

quite

organically

and

obviously

you're

managing

your

team
,

but

they're
,

for

most

parts
,

obviously

self-managing

by

the

sounds

of

it
,

and

they

have

their

own

activities
,

and

you

call

them

a

free-range

team

as

well
,

don't

you

A

free-range

team
?

How

did

that

come

about
?

Matthew Stibbe
18:02

Is

that

because

of

I

think

a

lot

of

that

stuff

on

the

About

Us

page
.

You

know
,

they

just

wrote

that

and

there's

a

little

video

on

our

About

Us

page

that

they

made
.

And

that

was

quite

delightful

actually
,

because

I

just

said

somebody

wanted
,

we

wanted

a

video
.

And

I

hired

a

film

crew

for

a

day

when

we

were

having

a

company

meeting

and

a

couple
.

I

just

said

to

a

couple

of

people
,

look
,

just

make

a

video
.

And

they

were

in

another

room

just

making

video

and

they

would

grab

people

and

go

and

I

had

no

idea
,

um
,

and

they

just

produced

that

video

themselves
,

um

as

a

team
,

and

um
,

they

also

and

this

I

think

is

lovely

they

made

all

the

music

for

it

as

well
.

Matthew Stibbe
18:43

There's

quite

a

musical

uh

group

in

the

company
,

lots

of

different

instruments

and

writers

and

things
,

um
,

so

that

sort

of

thing

emerges

very

naturally
.

And

what

that's

very

helpful

for

is

is

it

gives

me

a

sense

of

how

people

are
.

I

mean
,

it

gives

me

a

sense

of

how

people

are
.

I

mean

it

gives

me

a

sense

of

how

they

are

when

they're

not

trying

to

be

polite

to

the

boss

a

bit
,

but

there's

quite

a

lot

of

deliberate

culture

quite

a

lot

of

deliberate

work

and

that

doesn't

mean

that

one

has

to

be

skeptical

or

cynical

about

it
.

Matthew Stibbe
19:13

I

mean
,

I

think

all

companies

have

a

culture

to

be

skeptical

or

cynical

about

it
.

I

mean

I

think

all

companies

have

a

culture
,

you

know
,

but

if

you

don't

work

on

it

and

you

don't

think

about

it

and

you

don't

try

and

make

decisions

in

the

right

direction
,

you

get

perhaps

a

hostile

and

negative

or

neutral

culture

or

you

get

one

where

people

are

disengaged

and

cynical

about

it
.

You

know
,

I

think

Liz

puts

in

an

enormous

amount

of

work

just

on

sort

of

you

might

call

it

pastoral

care
,

checking

in

with

people
.

But

she

also

does

formal

surveys

and

we

have

a

tool

called

WorkBot

that

does

employee

NPS

scores

and

that's

amazing
.

So

we

have

there's

a

sort

of

a

numerical

data-driven

backbone

and

a

very

sort

of

soft
,

gentle
,

human

front

to

it
.

We

also

there's

some

odd

things

that

we

do

that

are

deliberate

choices
.

Matthew Stibbe
20:03

But

people

think

that

we

have

this

organic

culture

and

sometimes

people

can

say

to

me

oh
,

you

know
,

we're

doing

this

new

thing

and

it

doesn't

feel

as

organic

as

it

used

to

be
.

And

then

I

say
,

what

do

you

mean

by

that
?

And

they'll

tell

me

something

that

they

think

was

organic

and

natural

and

I'm

like

I

was

in

a

meeting

for

four

hours

before
.

We

worked

really

hard
.

You

think

that

just

is

natural
,

how

it

just

happens

to

be

like

that
.

And

it's

not
.

It's

bloody

hard

work
.

We

agonize

agonize

sometimes

over

some

of

the

choices

and
,

god

knows
,

we

make

terrible

mistakes
,

change

our

mind

and

do

something

different
.

A

couple

of

examples

we

have

a

model

of

measuring

work
.

We

don't

use

timesheets
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
20:49

Okay
.

Matthew Stibbe
20:58

We

have

gone

through

several

evolutions

of

this
,

but

we

measure

output

using

a

points

pricing
,

points

menu
,

points

menu

thing
.

We

ended

up

building

an

app

to

do

this
,

so

if

you

write

a

blog
,

post
,

you

don't

go
.

Matthew Stibbe
21:02

I

spent

three

hours

working

for

this

client

writing

this

blog

post

you

go
.

You

know

one

blog

post

title

this

this

client

on

delivered

on

this

date

and

it

gets

logged

and

there's

a

sort

of

a

rate

card

for

the

work
.

Um
,

so

nobody

is

being

measured

by

hours
,

but

there

is

an

element

in

which

they're

being

measured

by

output

oh
,

yes
,

yeah

and

this
.

Matthew Stibbe
21:27

This

has

been

on

some

levels
.

That's

really

attractive
.

Companies
,

people

who've

never

worked

in

a

sort

of

billable

hours

environment

don't

know

what

a

terrible

load

of

bs

that

is

and

all

the

politics

that

can

come

with

it
,

and

they

just

assume

that

what

we

do

sometimes

is

a

terrible

load

of

bs

with

a

lot

of

politics

that

come

with

it

and

I

go
,

well
,

yeah
,

because

it's

too

much

work
.

But

we

we

had
.

We

had

some

fairly

painful

lessons

as

we

sort

of

adopted

that

and

kind

of

thinking

about

the

culture

of

how

we

use

it
,

not

to

build

clients

or

to

plan

work
,

but

how

we

use

it

to

plan

work

force
.

You

know

how

many

people
?

Yes
,

yeah
,

how

we

measure

people's

performance

and

what

role

does

it

play

in

appraisals

and

and

so

on
,

and

and

and

and

kind

of
.

Matthew Stibbe
22:11

There's

been

some

misunderstandings
,

but

so

that

that

that's
.

That's

an

example

of

something

where

something

that

looks

from

the

outside
.

Now
,

if

I

told

you

the

positive
,

spun

version

of

that
,

oh
,

we

use

points
,

we

don't

do

billable

hours
.

It's
.

Everyone

loves

their

work

and

we

can

do

this
.

We

can

see

that
,

you

know
,

and

it's

very

good
.

Now

it's

a

good
,

positive

thing

and

people

appreciate

it
,

but

it

hasn't

always

been

that

way
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
22:36

Well
,

tell

you

what

I

mean

from
.

You

mentioned

all

those

things

about

how

your

culture

has

evolved

from

you

know
,

from

the

bottom

up
,

and

how

you

become

a

b

corp
,

how

you've

you're

attracting

the

right

sort

of

people
.

It

does

take

a

lot

of

hard

work

behind

that

and

I

think

it

from

when

I

looked

at

your

website

and

I

I

got

the

inkling

as

well

that

I

wanted

to

interview
.

Because

of

all

of

that
,

I

got

a

sense

that

there

was

something

about

articulate

that

I

I

liked

and

I

think

a

lot

of

businesses

can

probably

take

note

of

this
,

because

if

you

look

at

articulate

at

marketingcom
,

there's

lots

of

things

on
,

there's

lots

of

information

that

gives

you

an

understanding

of

who

they

are
,

how

they

work
,

not

just

what

they

do
.

It's

all

about

why

as

well

why

they

do

what

they

do
,

and

I

think

that

in

itself

has

led

to

them

receiving

600

plus

applicants

to

a

job

and

a

TED

applicant

and

people

you

know

building

a

team
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
23:39

That

just

sounds
.

You've

got

a

really

cohesive

team

by

the

sounds

of

things
.

That's

right
.

Yeah
,

I

have

to

take

my

hat

off

to

you

and

I

think

lots

of

people

who

may

be

skeptical

about

you

know

putting

together

remote

teams
.

This

is

a

great

example

of

the

hard

work

it

takes

to

build

a

team
,

but

the

fact

that

it

is

possible

and

you

know

what

the

outcomes

can

be

from

all

the

hard

work

and

you

mentioned
,

martin
,

you

mentioned

some

mistakes

Hiring and Building Company Culture

Alex Wilson-Campbell
24:09

.

Are

there

any

other

mistakes

along

the

way

that

you
?

Perhaps
,

if

you

look

back

now
,

you

think

to

yourself
,

actually

we

should

perhaps

have

taken

a

different

tack

to

doing

that

certain

thing
.

Matthew Stibbe
24:27

No
,

there's

an

ongoing

issue

challenge

which

is

around

um
,

discussing

and

capturing

our

culture
.

So

you

know
,

in

90

percent

of

culture

is

what

you

do
,

what

happens

around

it
.

You

know

how
,

what

instincts

or

preferences

or

principles

you

use

to

make

decisions
.

It's

not

what's

written

down

in

a

book

right
,

that's

not

culture
.

But

there

is

value

in

writing

something

down

in

a

book
.

There

is

value

in

trying

to

capture

and

distill

it
.

You're

on

board

new

people

and

you

kind

of

want

to

explain

it
.

You

want

to

put

it

on

the

website
.

It's

a

requirement

for

investors

and

people

certified

and

we

have

been

through

a

couple

of

fairly

lengthy

exercises

in

the

history

of

the

company
,

working

on

our

culture

and

documenting

it
,

and

a

couple

of

them

have

been

very

successful
.

Matthew Stibbe
25:25

When

we

were

smaller
,

the

last

attempt
,

and

there

were

specific
,

unique

reasons

why

it

didn't

work

so

well
,

but

it

didn't

work

so

well

and

it

ended

up

being

a

little

bit

feeling

a

little

bit

unfinished
,

a

little

bit

uncomfortable
,

not

like

people

were

cross

or

cynical
,

but

I

think

I

think

there

were

a

lot

of

passionate

views

about

things

and

everybody

wanted

to

put

something

into

it

and

a

few

people

wanted

kind

of

like

I

want

the

culture

to

documentation
,

to

say

this

kind

of

thing

and

I

want

it

to

say

this

kind

of

thing
,

I

wanted

that

kind

of

thing

and

we

didn't

quite

spend

the

time
.

Matthew Stibbe
26:03

We

needed

just

to

land

it
.

And

then
,

as

I

say
,

there

are

good

and

specific

reasons

why

that

happened
.

Um
,

but

it

it

reminds

me

of

the

obvious

point
,

which

is
,

if

you

all

of

it

takes

work
,

you

can't

just

blithely

go

oh

well
,

we're

going

to

work

on

thursday

on

our

company

culture

and

write

something

down
.

I

mean
,

everybody

has

opinions

and

ideas

and

thoughts

and

everyone

and

everyone

has

a
.

In

some

ways

it's

a

tribute

to

the

fact

that

people

are

passionately

invested

in

the

future

of

the

company
.

They

care

so

much

In

most

companies
.

Matthew Stibbe
26:34

That

kind

of

culture

workshop

stuff

you

know
,

so

what

we've

actually

done

is

the

woman

who

helped

us

with

our

company

culture

three
,

four

ago
,

um
,

now

has

a

full-time

job

doing

something

in

hr

in

a

very

big

corporation

and

we've

done

a

deal

with

her

two

days

of

marketing

advice
,

if

we

can

have

her

for

two

days

to

run

our

next

nice

workshop

next

year
.

So

we

pulled

her

back

in

um

and

we're

going

to

have

another
,

another

go

at

that

to

really

try

and

dig

into

it
,

um
,

so

that
.

But

you

know

I'm

looking

forward

to

that

um
,

but

I
,

I
,

I
,

you

can't

phone

it
,

you

can't

phone

the

stuff

in
.

I

think

that's

that's

the

observation

you

have

to

put
.

You

have

to

put

in

the

hours
,

let

people

have

their
,

and

you

have

to

work

through

the

pain

a

little

bit
.

I

think

it's

very

easy

to

reduce

pain

by

you

know
,

for

me

as

the

boss
,

by

exercising

my
.

You

know
,

I'm

the

boss

and

we're

doing

it

like

this

Whenever

I

do

that
,

not

whenever

I

do

it

if
.

Matthew Stibbe
27:41

I

do

it

solely

for

the

purpose

of

bringing

a

difficult

conversation

to

an

end
.

That

never

works
.

You

kind

of

have

to

lean

into

the

pain

a

little

bit
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
27:50

And

about

culture
.

I

mean
,

there's

a

big

topic

of

conversation

now

in

the

remote

world
,

not

just

the

remote

world

actually
,

but

hiring

people

that

actually

I

suppose

fit

or

are

culture

fit

I

don't

like

that

expression
.

But

hiring

people
,

that

I

just

don't

like

it
.

But

how

do

you

know
,

when

somebody's

right

At

the

top

of

the

call

you

mentioned

that
,

okay
,

not

everybody

is

suited

to

remote

work
,

that's

one

thing
.

But

how

then

do

you
,

from

these

600

applicants

you've

narrowed

it

down

to

say

I

don't

know

10
.

How

do

you

know

who's
?

Matthew Stibbe
28:29

going

to

work
.

You

don't

always

know
,

yeah
,

unfortunately
,

um
,

but

you

don't

always

know

works

in

both
,

in

two

directions

it
.

Most

people

try

to

reduce

the

risk

by

hiring

people

that

are

more

like

themselves
,

or

more

like

people

who've

been

successful
,

or
,

you

know
,

relying

on

apparently

objective

factors

like

education

or

experience
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
28:56

Yes
.

Matthew Stibbe
28:58

When

those

things

are

probably

easier

to

test

in

a

CV

or

an

interview
,

but

they

aren't

necessarily

indicative

of

whether

someone's

going

to

be

any

good
.

So

what

do

we

try

and

do
?

Well
,

yes
,

you're

absolutely

right
,

we're

trying

very

hard

to

read

out

people

who

are

not

going

to

be

comfortable

working

on

their

own
.

So

we

do

a

lot

of
.

We

give

them

people

homework

for

every

interview
.

You

know

they

have

to

write

a

blog

or

they

have

to

do

some

sales

consultancy

role
,

they

have

to

do

some

analysis

on

something

so

we

can

see

whether

they're

capable

of

hitting

a

deadline
,

reading

a

brief
,

understanding

something
,

giving

us

something

back
,

and

we

try

very

hard

to

do

that

before
.

We've

spoken

to

them

very

much

because

we're

in
,

you

know
.

We

then

look

at

their

work
.

Another

thing

that

we

do

it's

a

very

small

thing

that

actually

incredibly

helpful

on

our

applicant

management

system
.

We

ask

yeah
,

send

your

CV
,

send

a

cover

letter
,

whatever
,

whatever
,

whatever
.

Matthew Stibbe
29:47

We

ask

three

questions
.

For

example
,

what

are

you

geeking

out

about

at

the

moment
?

And

if

you

could

be

doing

anything

at

the

moment
,

what

would

you

be

doing
?

And

they

sound

a

little

bit

cliche

interview

questions
.

But

what

we're

interested

in

is

given

an

application

form

for

a

job

that

you

might

like

to

do
.

How

much

thought

are

you

going

to

put

into

what

you

write
?

Are

you

going

to

write
?

Oh
,

the

third

one

is

in

280

characters

a

tweet
.

Tell

us

why

we

should

hire

you
.

It's

a

bit

of

a

sneaky

test

of

people's

ability

to

write
.

Easy

said

and

done
.

Yeah
,

so

these

questions
.

When

I'm

reviewing

CVs
,

that's

what

I

look

at

first
.

I

go

to

those

questions

and

if

someone

just

puts
,

leaves

them

blank
.

Matthew Stibbe
30:30

Oh

dear
,

no

If

someone

puts

in

something

sort

of

vacuous
.

I

don't

like

it

when

people

mention

bland

TV

shows
,

because

it

just

doesn't

show

enough

imagination
.

They're

not

engaged

in

the

world

enough
.

And

if

it

you

know

love
.

What

are

you

geeking

out

about
?

Love

Island
?

What

I

like

is

someone

who's

actually

geeking

out

about

something

like

really
,

passionately

yeah

so

we're

looking

for

attributes

of

behavior

and

attitude

and

life

skills
.

Matthew Stibbe
30:57

So

we

want

people

who

are

curious

about

the

world
,

people

who

have

the

ability

to

self-motivate

to

learn

a

new

thing
,

parachute

jumping

right
,

people

who

are
,

you

know
,

got

a

bit

of

get

up

and

go

about

them
.

Matthew Stibbe
31:08

People

who've

got

a

hit

for

remote

working
,

people

who

have

their

own

hinterland
,

their

own

life

outside

work
.

They're

not

expecting

work

to

be

all

their

friends

and

all

their

social

life
.

They

have

friends
,

family
,

sure
.

So

you

know

we're

looking

for

that
,

we'd

like

it

when

we

see

good

academics
,

but

we

don't
.

We

don't

hire

on

academics
,

but

what

that

says

to

us

is

when

people

have

applied

themselves

intelligently

to

something

but

we've

hired
.

Matthew Stibbe
31:35

Well
,

we

haven't

hired

yet

because

they

won't

release

her

from

the
.

We

wanted

to

hire

and

offered

a

job

to

a

woman

who

works

in

the

armed

services

and

not

an

enormous

academic

career
,

went

in

at

18

but

an

amazing

military

career

and

has

has

had

management

leadership

training
,

has

had

writing

training

for

her

work
,

very

intelligent
,

very

insightful

about

what

she

and

it

would
.

It

came

across

very

clearly

in

her

cv

and

it

came

across

in

her

answers

and

it

came

across

in

her

cover

letter
.

When

the

military

release

her
,

we're

hiring

her

in

a

heartbeat
,

same

with

our

former

head

teacher
.

Actually
,

she

had

got

an

academic

thing
,

but

it

was

in

PGCE

20

years

ago
.

That's

not

really

a

qualification

for

marketing
,

but

a
.

Matthew Stibbe
32:22

TED

talk

hell

yeah
.

Of

course

we

hire

that

Of

course

we're

looking

for

those

kinds

of

things

and

you

can

see

it

very

quickly

in

a

CV
.

If

someone's

actually

done

something

interesting

and

and

had

a

bit

of

a

life
,

um
,

then

we

interview

a

lot
.

I

mean

they
,

they

meet

a

lot

of

people

we

hire

them

at
.

So

one
,

one

other

thing
,

one

other

thought

no
,

please
,

please

wherever

we

can
,

we

start

people

as

interns
.

Matthew Stibbe
32:47

We

give

them

three

months

on

the

job

training
.

We

put

a

lot

into

the

internships

but

it

gives

everybody

a

chance

to

see

whether

it's

right

for

them

before

we

commit

to

a

full-time

permanent

role

and

they

commit

to

full-time

remote

working
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
33:02

And

is

your

in

terms

of

your

strategy
?

Is

it

more

of

an

in

terms

of

your

strategy
?

Is

it

more

of

an

in

terms

of

your

hiring
?

That

is
,

is

it

more

inbound

or

outbound
?

Because

I

noticed

when

I

look

at

your

website

that

there

is
.

I

think

when

I

first

contacted

you
,

I

mentioned

about

the

underrepresentation

in

tech
,

um
,

especially

of

women
,

and

you've

got

your

team

is

probably

what
?

70

women
,

60

is

it
?

Matthew Stibbe
33:32

yeah
,

it's

it
.

But

if

women

are

underrepresented

in

tech

and

I

think

that

is

probably

borne

out

by

the

statistics

certainly

I

was

talking

to

andrew

about

this

and

women

going

into

STEM

subjects

is

very

underrepresented
,

I

remember

in

my

computer

games

company

we

had

two

women

working

for

us
,

one

woman

programmer

and

a

graphic

designer
,

which

was

terrible
.

Out

of

that

time
,

30
,

40

people
,

but

it

was

a

representation

of

this

lack

of

women

coming

in
,

lack

of

africans
,

lack

of
,

but

it

was
.

Matthew Stibbe
34:09

It

was

enough

to

enough

for

cosmopolitan

article

about

them

so

really

I

don't

know

if

we

were

the

only

computer

games

company

in

cosmo
,

but

we

were

certainly

one

of

them
,

um

which
,

which

I

think

is

extraordinary
.

Even

looking

back

on

it

now
,

it

seems

extraordinary

that

it

should

be

so

remarkable

Gender Imbalance in Tech and Marketing

Matthew Stibbe
34:27

.

But

yes
,

ok
,

women

are

underrepresented

in

tech
.

True
,

I

think

men
.

I

think

there's

a

slightly

less

extreme

but

slight

gender

imbalance

in

marketing
.

In

my

anecdotal

experience

of

15

years

in

marketing
,

there

was

probably

slightly

more

women

than

men
.

So

I

think

we

actually

rep

we
,

I

think

we

reflect

our

gender

imbalances

in

our

industry

right

not
.

Matthew Stibbe
34:52

We're

not

doing

a

great

job

of

getting

women

into

tech
.

We're

doing
,

you

know
,

an

inadequate

job
,

perhaps

getting

men

into

marketing
.

I'm

afraid
,

yeah
,

yeah
,

I

don't

know
.

I

have

to

be

careful

about

this
,

because

I'm

not

sure

it's

completely

true
.

It's

only

my

instinct
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
35:04

Yeah
,

I

have

a

similar

instinct

to

you

and

um
,

and

I

don't

know
,

I

have

to

be

careful

about

this

because

I'm

not

sure

it's

completely

true
.

It's

only

my

instinct
.

Yeah
,

I

have

a

similar

instinct

to

you

and

um
,

and

I

don't

know

it's
.

It's
,

it's

something

that's

that's

close

to

my

heart

because

I've

got
,

you

know
,

two

girls

who

really

are

passionate

about

both

marketing

well
,

not

marketing
,

but

tech
.

They

kind

of

gravitate

towards

the

tech

things

and

my
,

my

family
,

my

family
,

were

in

in

stem

subjects
,

and

so

it's

something

that

was

passionate

that

I
,

I

again
,

I'd

noticed

about

your

um
,

about

the

visuals

on

your

website
,

but
,

um
,

I

think

you're

doing

a
,

a

great

job

in

terms

of

your

team

building
,

your

team

building

your

business
,

uh
,

growing

as

well
,

and

just

one
,

I

suppose
,

one
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
35:45

Well
,

a

couple

of

last

questions

for

you

in

terms

of

um
,

managing
,

I

mean

again
,

lots

of

hiring
,

lots

of

managers

in

general
,

they
,

who
,

who
,

perhaps
,

in

the

co-located

business

they

have
,

I

suppose
,

a

I

don't

know

if

it's

mistrust

when

it

comes

to

allowing

people

to
,

to
,

to

work

remotely
,

and

there's

still

a

bit

of

skepticism

there
,

isn't

there
?

What

advice

would

you

give

to

them

in

terms

of
,

you

know
,

again
,

building

a

team

You've

got

20

in

your

team

Building

a

team

that's
,

again
,

cohesive

and

is

just

right

on

the

ball
.

Matthew Stibbe
36:24

Yes
,

I

wrote

an

article

about

this

a

couple

of

years

ago

and

I

just

saw

it

again

yesterday

looking

through

an

old

blog

and

the

title

was

a

bit

provocative

Managers

care

about

absenteeism

but

leaders

care

about

presenteeism

and

the

thought

that

that

rather

glib

headline

sort

of

captures

is
.

If

you're

a

kind

of

insecure

manager
,

you

know

the

thing

that

you

can

control

and

if

you're

insecure

you're

interested

in

control

is

whether

or

not

john

or

jane

are

sat

in

their

desk

at

you

know

six

o'clock

working

on

your

project
,

whether

they

are

or

not
,

whether

it

helps

to

have

them

there

working

later
,

whether

it

matters

if

they

come

in

at

10

o'clock

in

the

morning

and

go

at

seven

o'clock
,

or

come

in

at

6

am

and

go

for

or

work

remotely
,

you

know
.

Matthew Stibbe
37:20

But

the

thing

that

you

can

control

is

can

I

see

them
?

Are

they

there
?

And

there

are

definitely
,

you

know
,

insecure

managers

who

want

that

level

of

control

and

I've

come

across

them

in

my

life
.

I've

certainly

heard

about

them
.

Like

my

wife

had

a

manager

who

who
,

if

ever

she

booked

a

day

off

to

work

from

home
,

would

book

immediately

like

a

call

at

nine

o'clock

to

make

sure

she

was

sat

at

her

desk
.

Matthew Stibbe
37:43

On

some

spurious

pretense

and

and

you

know
,

would

it

would

come

up

behind

her

in

the

office

and

it

all

seemed

a

same

sort

of

package

of

insecure

kind

of

control

freak

behavior
.

Trust and Productivity in Remote Business

Matthew Stibbe
37:58

So

I

think

I

think

the

the

answer

has

to

be

something

about

trust
.

I

think

the

answer

has

to

be

I'm

going

to

give

up

the

control

of

hours

and

presence

and

I'm

going

to

gain

some

control

through

relationships
,

through

trust
,

through

expectation

setting
,

by

providing

context
,

by

having

the

difficult

conversations

about

productivity

if

someone's

output

isn't

as

it

should

be
.

But

you

know
,

assuming

that

they're

going

to

do

a

good

job

and

assuming

if

they're

working

from

home
,

they're

working

right
.

I

mean
,

and

here's

here's

the

flip

side

of

that
,

if

you
,

if

you

make

force

people

to

commute

every

day

and

in

london

that

means

you

know

10

hours

a

week
,

yeah

it's

a

lot

of

people
.

Matthew Stibbe
38:47

If

you

let

them

work

from

home
,

you're

probably

going

to

get

most

of

those

10

hours

for

work
.

I

mean

everybody

you

talk

to

who

has

to

commute
.

Now

I

love

working

from

home

because

I

get

so

much

done
,

the

phone

doesn't

rig

and

I

don't

have

to

bloody

commute
.

And

then

they

feel

guilty

because

they've

got

to

work
.

You

know

they're

not

out

in

the

office

so

they

work

really

hard
.

So

you

know

my

experience
.

You

let

people

work

from

home
,

remote

work

they

actually

get

much

more

out

of

much

more

productive
.

Matthew Stibbe
39:11

Um
,

so
,

trusting

in

that
,

um
,

one

of

the

things

that

we

do
,

I

think
,

as

I

mentioned
,

was

we

measure

output

rather

than

hours
,

and

that

that's

a

very

profound
.

Matthew Stibbe
39:20

The

other

thing

that

people

find

really

hard

to

deal

with

we

don't

set

deadlines

so

people

understand

sometimes
,

when

client

work

has

to

be

done

by

a

certain

date
,

you

know

there's

an

event

or

a

website

launch

or

whatever
.

Well
,

you

know

that
.

You

know

if

you're

working

on

a

project
,

you

know

what

the

key

dates

are
,

if

there

are

any
.

And

people

understand

also
.

We

have

to

deliver

a

certain

amount

of

work

for

a

client

every

month
.

There's

a

program

and

a

schedule
,

but

I'm

not

going

to

tell

you

you

need

to

do

this

by

friday

and

then

you

need

to

do

the

next

thing

by

wednesday

and

the

thing

after

that

by

friday
.

If

I

have

set

this

up

and

communicated

the

context

correctly
,

you

know

what

needs

to

be

done

this

week
.

You

know

what

needs

to

be

done

next

week
.

I'll

leave

it

up

to

you

to

manage

your

time
,

your

schedule
,

your

workload
,

your

planning

to

get

the

right

work

done

at

the

right

time

for

the

client
.

Matthew Stibbe
40:06

And

that
,

I

think
,

is

I

explain

try

and

explain

this

to

some

clients
,

you

don't
.

You
,

I

need

deadlines
,

I

want

a

table
.

You

get

it

by

the

end

of

the

month
,

it's

all

it'll

come
.

It's

like

wagamama

you'll

get

it

when

it's

ready

and

everything
,

and

it

will

be

fresh
.

But

that

that's

very
.

I

think

that's

probably

at

the

cutting

edge

of

of

remote

working
,

right

for

me
,

getting

people

to

accept
.

And

it's

interesting

because

people

come

into

the

company

and

they

want

me

to

set

deadlines

for

them

and

I'm

like

I'm

not

doing

it
,

you've

got

to

figure

your

own

stuff

out
,

that's

your

workload
.

So

actually

this

is
,

and

I

promise

I'll

shut

up
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
40:43

No
,

this

is

great
.

I

love

this
.

Matthew Stibbe
40:48

That

thing

about

setting

deadlines

can

cause

some

stress

for

people
,

right

Meaning

if

they've

just

got

a

heap

of

work

and

they

don't

know

what

to

do

first
.

So

we

do

have

to

do

some

training
,

we

have

to

talk

to

people
,

we

have

to

communicate

about

how

to

manage

your

task

list

and

how

to

communicate

with

your

boss

saying

I'm

not

going

to

get

that

done

because
,

or

you

saying

I'm

not

going

to

get

that

done

because
,

or

I've

got

too

much

to

do

this

week
.

I've

got

these

five

things

on

my

to-do

list

and

I

can

do

any

three

of

them
.

What's

the

most

important

thing

for

you
,

account

manager
,

for

me

to

get

done

first
?

Those

are

life

skills

and

those

are

valuable

things
.

None

of

that
.

Nothing

is

going

to

be

solved

by

me

telling

you

what

your

deadline

is
,

except

50%

of

the

time

you'll

miss

the

deadline
,

and

then

everybody

will

get

stressed

out
,

of

course
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
41:32

Well
,

I'll

tell

you

what

that

was

the

voice

of

Matthew
,

or

this

is

the

voice

of

Matthew

Stibbeck

on

the

Remote

World

Life

podcast
.

He's

the

CEO

of

Articulate

Marketing

and

I'd

listen

back

to

this

particular

marketing

and

I'd

listen

back

to

this

if

you're
,

if

you're

in

management
,

if

you're

building

a

remote

business
,

then

this

is

just

gold
,

because

it's

it

tells

you

about

not

just

the
,

the

trust

issues
,

the

culture

issues
,

the
,

everything

when

it

comes

to

building

a

remote

team

building
,

remote

business
,

and

one

that

has

been

successful

for

the

last

well

since

2003
.

So

have

a

listen

back

to

this

recording
,

matthew
.

I

just

really

want

to

say

thank

you

for

your

time

and

we'll

be

looking

out

for

Well

since

2003
.

So

have

a

listen

back

to

this

recording
,

matthew
.

I

just

really

want

to

say

thank

you

for

your

time

and

we'll

be

looking

out

for

what

articulate

marketing

is

doing

in

the

Future Plans for Articulate Marketing

Alex Wilson-Campbell
42:19

future
?

Matthew Stibbe
42:19

In

fact
,

what's

on

the

horizon

for

articulate

marketing
?

Well
,

we

just

launched

an

app

last

week

HubToolkitcom

so

anyone

who's

using

HubSpot
,

it's

a

tool

that

makes

HubSpot

does

SEO

and

social

media

things

in

HubSpot

more

efficiently
,

and

we're

working

on

the

new

version

of

our

Points

app
,

which

will

eventually

surface

in

our

application
,

turbinehqcom
,

which

does

purchase

orders
,

expenses

and

time

off

requests
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
42:42

Wow
.

Matthew Stibbe
42:44

So

besides

being

a

marketing

company
,

we

also

geek

out

on

this

other

stuff
,

and

geeking

out

is

what

people

look

for
,

too
,

from
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
42:48

Articulate

Sounds

good
,

and

where

can

we

find

that

Across

at

articulatemarketingcom
.

Or

is

there

another

domain

that

you

want

me

to

share

with

the

audience
?

Matthew Stibbe
42:59

Articulatemarketingcom

has

a

tools

page

and

everything

we

do

that's

not

Articulate

is

on

there
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
43:04

Matthew
,

thank

you

so

much

for

your

time
.

It's

been

great

talking

to

you

and

I'll

be

following

and

watching

with

a

keen

eye

to

see

what

articulate

marketing

is

getting

up

to

in

the

future
.

Thank

you

so

much

for

your

time
.

Matthew Stibbe
43:16

My

pleasure
.

Thank

you

very

much
,

Alex
.

Alex Wilson-Campbell
43:18

Thank

you
.