FROM THE ARCHIVE: Rowena Henigan shares her personal story of transitioning to remote work amidst family health challenges and how it allowed her to maintain her career while moving to Spain for her child’s asthma. Discover how remote work has empowered Rowena, both personally and professionally, from her early days with a telecommunications company to her roles with large insurance companies and her aspirations as a digital nomad.
Managing clients across different time zones can be daunting, but Rowena offered advice on overcoming these challenges while maintaining a work-life balance. We talked about the steep learning curve associated with mastering various video conferencing tools and adapting to remote work. Our discussion also touches on the need for self-discipline and routine to prevent overwork and burnout, emphasizing the importance of intentional self-care practices to stay productive and well.
Incorporating wellness into remote work life is essential, and Rowena provided tips on maintaining self-care through manageable chunks of time and creative activities. Learn how taking breaks can enhance productivity and why human connection is vital in the virtual world. Through personal anecdotes and practical advice, we highlighted the necessity of supportive conversations, empathy, and trust among remote teams.
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Remote Work Life Podcast Interview
Alex Wilson-Campbell
0:00
Hi
,
it's
Alex
Geller
from
the
Remote
Work
Life
Podcast
.
I
hope
you're
well
,
wherever
you
may
be
in
the
world
.
I
have
yet
another
special
guest
today
with
me
.
I
have
Rowena
Hennigan
,
and
Rowena
is
a
remote
work
skills
expert
.
She's
got
unique
experience
of
designing
and
delivering
university
accredited
courses
in
that
subject
.
She's
passionate
about
well-being
in
remote
work
,
which
is
what
we
all
need
,
especially
in
organizations
.
It's
obviously
vital
and
she
views
that
as
vital
in
effective
operations
,
and
I
couldn't
agree
more
.
She
is
the
employee
programs
remote
expert
for
two
large
insurance
companies
.
Now
Rowena
works
100%
remote
from
Spain
hard'd
love
to
be
there
right
now
and
she's
founded
two
fully
remote
companies
herself
.
She's
founded
Row
Remote
and
Rise
,
which
is
R-I-S-E
in
capital
letters
.
So
Rise
,
which
is
all
about
emotional
intelligence
,
and
she's
,
of
course
,
a
seasoned
digital
nomad
.
Rowena
,
I
just
want
to
say
thank
you
so
much
for
taking
the
time
to
join
us
today
and
you're
very
welcome
thanks
,
alex
,
and
thanks
for
the
fabulous
introduction
.
Rowena Henningan
1:14
It's
lovely
to
join
you
today
no
,
it's
wonderful
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
1:17
It's
that
first
conversation
we
had
a
couple
of
weeks
ago
because
I
met
rowena
.
We
were
met
via
LinkedIn
,
I
believe
it
was
.
I
met
via
referral
.
Somebody
recommended
you
to
the
show
and
I
thought
let
me
have
a
look
.
So
I
looked
and
I'd
heard
of
you
before
and
you're
somebody
who
is
well
known
in
the
world
of
remote
work
and
very
much
a
pioneer
,
I
would
have
said
,
within
the
world
of
remote
work
.
So
what
I
really
want
to
know
is
how
did
you
come
to
be
the
remote
work
expert
that
you
are
today
?
Rowena Henningan
1:53
I
guess
it
started
back
in
2007
.
I
was
working
with
a
telecommunications
company
in
Ireland
,
in
the
west
of
Ireland
,
who
are
now
known
as
Avaya
,
but
back
then
,
alex
,
they
were
called
Nel
and
I
was
part
of
a
global
team
.
We
were
allowed
you
know
,
we
were
enabled
to
work
remotely
in
the
early
days
of
things
like
Microsoft
Communicator
and
early
communication
tools
,
and
I
worked
a
lot
between
the
UK
and
Ireland
and
I
started
working
and
set
on
a
virtual
team
then
and
it
really
opened
my
mind
to
it
.
And
around
that
time
as
well
,
I
did
some
traveling
and
I
began
to
realize
that
I
could
work
virtually
and
it
wasn't
complete
remote
work
as
we
know
it
now
because
it
was
in
its
early
stages
,
but
that
was
my
first
taster
.
And
then
fast
forward
on
to
around
2012
,
I
was
pregnant
with
my
daughter
and
living
in
Dublin
and
,
yeah
,
I
started
to
work
a
little
bit
from
home
on
a
couple
of
the
the
contracts
I
had
at
the
time
and
that
you
know
,
with
you
have
children
.
When
you
have
kids
or
when
you're
moving
into
family
life
,
remote
work
is
really
flexible
,
it
really
supports
you
and
it
was
something
that
I
thought
.
This
is
great
.
I'm
leaning
on
this
skill
,
this
way
of
life
again
.
I'm
really
interested
in
it
.
It's
part
of
my
passion
,
and
as
I
was
working
through
those
in
a
kind
of
hybrid
model
,
as
we
call
it
now
,
with
two
contracts
,
I
began
to
notice
some
of
the
skills
you
need
to
work
remotely
.
I
my
background
is
in
marketing
,
communications
and
psychology
,
and
I
was
really
interested
in
how
we
communicated
virtually
,
how
we
made
our
intentions
clear
,
how
we
were
self-leaders
,
self-managers
,
as
individual
remote
workers
.
Rowena Henningan
3:38
And
then
a
big
life
change
happened
for
me
and
it's
a
big
part
of
my
story
my
daughter
,
around
the
age
of
one
,
developed
quite
bad
asthma
chronic
asthma
in
fact
.
So
those
first
uh
,
couple
of
years
of
her
early
life
were
very
stressful
,
to
the
point
where
myself
and
my
husband
moved
to
Spain
because
we
were
seeking
a
drier
climate
for
her
and
and
and
that
is
where
I
suddenly
really
,
really
it
was
like
the
life
lesson
to
go
.
Remote
work
has
enabled
me
.
First
of
all
,
enabled
me
to
keep
my
career
going
with
a
very
sick
child
and
I
can
flash
back
to
2014
and
15
surviving
on
very
such
low
levels
of
sleep
for
nearly
three
years
in
total
,
but
managing
to
work
a
little
bit
flexibly
with
my
in
the
two
contracts
I
had
then
,
and
then
being
able
to
change
my
whole
life
and
move
to
Spain
with
my
family
and
enable
my
daughter's
health
because
of
being
using
,
taking
advantage
of
appreciating
the
remote
work
way
of
life
.
Rowena Henningan
4:43
And
in
my
introduction
you
said
I'm
a
digital
nomad
.
Now
I
have
a
confession
I'm
a
wannabe
digital
nomad
.
It's
a
bit
different
,
difficult
with
it
with
a
young
child
,
but
I
still
love
to
travel
.
I
go
to
Bali
.
I
work
from
there
because
I
have
family
there
.
I've
been
to
France
because
I
have
family
there
and
work
from
there
when
I
go
back
to
Ireland
,
it's
the
same
.
So
it's
a
way
of
life
for
me
and
I
am
really
,
really
appreciative
and
grateful
to
remote
work
as
a
way
of
life
and
a
way
of
thinking
and
a
way
of
working
,
because
it
really
kept
me
sane
when
I
needed
it
and
kept
me
working
,
and
that's
why
I'm
so
passionate
about
it
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
5:23
And
you
said
Ashley
actually
counted
about
two
or
three
times
which
you
said
it's
a
way
of
life
and
it's
um
,
couldn't
agree
more
.
And
it's
,
it's
.
It's
a
way
of
life
that
and
by
the
from
the
sounds
of
what
you've
just
said
,
it's
,
it's
enabled
you
.
It's
again
,
it's
an
enabler
.
It
enables
you
to
build
the
life
that
you
want
and
that
you
need
.
It's
helped
you
to
to
move
out
to
,
to
spain
,
to
help
your
daughter
,
to
be
able
to
apply
your
expertise
wherever
you
may
be
in
the
world
,
at
the
same
level
that
you
would
do
,
or
probably
even
better
than
you
would
do
,
if
you
were
in
an
office
and
you
built
a
great
career
and
now
you're
advising
people
on
,
on
um
,
on
remote
work
,
and
exactly
exactly
you
,
I
mean
,
you
mentioned
traveling
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
6:06
I
mean
,
and
in
fact
,
maybe
what
we
should
say
at
the
top
of
the
show
as
well
,
is
that
a
bit
of
a
disclaimer
in
the
sense
that
we're
certainly
not
in
a
kind
of
a
normal
situation
as
things
stand
at
the
moment
?
This
by
no
means
and
I
keep
saying
this
because
lots
of
people
are
still
conflating
the
two
but
,
um
,
this
is
us
being
forced
to
work
from
home
.
This
is
not
remote
work
,
so
there
are
constraints
,
as
Rowena
was
saying
about
her
ability
to
travel
and
all
those
other
sorts
of
things
.
But
no
,
I
mean
,
it
sounds
like
you've
been
able
,
you
are
have
been
able
to
,
um
,
build
a
great
life
for
yourself
.
Uh
,
you've
Challenges and Priorities in Remote Work
Alex Wilson-Campbell
6:42
.
You've
got
your
clients
now
as
well
,
across
the
world
.
Where
are
your
clients
distributed
?
Rowena Henningan
6:47
So
I
have
clients
in
Europe
.
I
have
some
international
work
as
well
with
the
States
.
I
mean
,
I
choose
,
I'm
a
solopreneur
and
I
have
the
other
company
you
mentioned
,
Rise
Emotional
Intelligence
,
which
is
looking
at
services
for
corporates
in
emotional
intelligence
,
specifically
for
remote
teams
,
virtual
teams
,
and
that's
with
co-founder
Sandra
Thompson
out
of
the
UK
,
who
we've
never
met
.
We
founded
the
company
in
July
.
We've
never
met
.
My
own
consultancy
service
and
company
is
mostly
European
because
I
choose
it
that
way
because
of
time
zone
.
So
I
want
to
make
that
clear
as
well
.
I
do
have
some
further
off
work
,
but
that's
also
the
joy
.
I
mean
,
time
zones
can
be
a
challenge
and
as
well
as
being
,
you
know
,
an
advocate
for
remote
work
it's
my
own
flavor
of
remote
work
.
I
say
to
myself
that
I
don't
want
to
be
on
calls
generally
at
11
o'clock
at
night
and
because
of
the
nature
of
my
work
consulting
and
training
I
would
need
to
do
that
if
I
was
working
a
lot
with
the
safe
.
So
for
now
I'm
choosing
that
European
zone
which
is
more
time
zone
,
friendly
with
the
family
.
Rowena Henningan
7:53
But
that's
all
part
of
the
values
that
go
with
this
way
of
life
,
to
what
you
said
,
and
then
taking
that
way
of
life
and
that
purpose
that
it
can
bring
to
you
,
because
your
priorities
are
often
different
.
Some
of
my
priorities
when
my
daughter
was
sick
were
forced
on
me
.
I
didn't
have
the
choice
.
I
had
to
work
in
the
couple
of
hours
after
I'd
had
it
,
you
know
,
in
between
naps
or
whatever
Whereas
now
I
look
at
life
differently
and
I
look
at
those
values
and
that
purpose
from
that
experience
.
Rowena Henningan
8:24
And
what's
interesting
and
thanks
for
reminding
,
because
we
can
never
forget
is
we
are
living
through
such
an
exceptional
,
extraordinary
time
.
What
many
people
are
doing
and
even
you
know
I
did
it
for
five
months
solid
it's
not
true
remote
work
.
If
you're
confined
in
your
home
,
with
emergency
home
working
,
it's
not
the
same
and
you
are
restricted
,
you
have
stress
,
you
have
distractions
,
you
have
competing
responsibilities
,
and
what's
interesting
for
me
is
as
hard
as
this
last
year
has
been
for
everyone
in
different
ways
.
It
actually
reminded
me
of
those
values
.
You
reminded
me
of
those
values
.
It
actually
brought
back
to
me
the
importance
of
choosing
flexible
work
to
prioritize
your
work-life
balance
and
well-being
as
an
individual
,
and
and
that
that
that's
why
I'm
so
passionate
as
well
about
individual
remote
workers
being
aware
of
that
for
themselves
and
knowing
that
they
can
choose
that
and
that's
another
word
you've
used
,
uh
,
quite
often
initially
,
something
that's
applied
to
not
just
you
but
many
others
in
your
situation
choice
,
choosing
,
having
the
ability
to
choose
,
but
at
the
same
time
it
doesn't
detract
from
the
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
9:35
You
know
,
the
work
and
the
all
that
kind
of
thing
.
Having
choices
is
so
important
and
you've
been
able
to
,
to
build
that
in
,
but
,
of
course
,
it's
been
by
no
means
easy
going
,
I'm
sure
,
and
this
kind
of
um
way
of
work
,
as
is
,
you
know
,
when
you're
first
starting
out
,
if
you
don't
have
,
even
if
you're
quite
experienced
,
anyway
,
it
can
be
,
it
can
have
its
demands
,
can't
it
?
Um
,
what
sort
of
challenges
did
you
face
when
you
were
sort
of
starting
out
?
And
I
mean
,
yeah
,
how
did
you
overcome
those
challenges
?
Rowena Henningan
10:09
There
is
definitely
a
learning
curve
,
and
there
can
be
a
learning
curve
particularly
as
a
sort
of
in
that
freelance
solopreneur
model
where
you're
dealing
with
different
companies
all
the
time
.
So
I'll
give
you
an
example
At
one
point
in
june
,
I
was
using
14
different
video
conferencing
tools
for
a
large
presentation
wow
,
okay
of
different
ilks
and
some
of
them
I
don't
name
names
because
I
don't
want
to
get
in
trouble
I
was
like
,
if
they
don't
really
want
that
to
happen
,
I
would
get
back
to
the
link
and
having
to
to
,
I
mean
,
I
obviously
I'm
20
odd
years
in
my
career
,
so
,
like
us
joking
at
the
start
,
alex
,
when
some
piece
of
technology
doesn't
work
,
it's
all
about
experience
.
But
there
was
a
steep
learning
curve
when
I
started
out
remote
and
established
my
company
,
row
Remote
in
2017
.
Learning
the
tool
,
understanding
more
about
asynchronous
communications
,
the
levels
of
remote
work
,
applying
them
to
myself
,
then
looking
around
back
then
and
trying
to
learn
more
about
GitHub
,
gitlab
I
mean
Andy
Treba
that
you
had
on
from
Crossover
would
be
someone
that
I
have
followed
and
admired
and
I
listened
to
the
podcast
great
podcast
episode
with
him
and
so
much
to
learn
about
how
he's
taken
,
for
example
,
and
other
companies
and
other
leaders
in
the
space
about
how
they
were
doing
things
in
remote
.
So
I
had
that
challenge
of
learning
and
then
this
year
that's
been
accelerated
completely
,
been
accelerated
completely
.
Rowena Henningan
11:47
So
that
challenge
of
keeping
up
to
date
and
understanding
what
is
out
there
in
terms
of
remote
work
and
the
different
maturity
stages
and
models
but
then
applying
it
to
your
own
personal
or
company
or
team
situation
.
Obviously
that's
something
that's
ongoing
and
you're
always
learning
and
it's
almost
like
you
have
to
almost
remind
yourself
that
it's
constantly
evolving
.
But
the
good
news
for
listeners
is
and
I'm
sure
you
would
agree
that
the
wealth
and
quality
of
information
now
is
astounding
in
these
recent
months
and
people
can
join
in
and
learn
so
much
quicker
than
someone
,
say
,
who
was
trying
to
get
into
remote
work
five
or
10
years
ago
.
There's
a
lot
more
easy
,
accessible
information
in
the
community
to
build
up
the
YouTube
videos
,
those
how-to
documents
,
all
of
that
.
So
that
was
one
of
the
challenges
.
Rowena Henningan
12:38
The
other
challenge
as
well
and
it's
a
known
challenge
within
the
whole
area
of
remote
work
is
that
potential
to
overwork
,
which
could
lead
into
burnout
.
So
I'm
mostly
sitting
in
my
I'm
in
my
co-working
space
today
I
do
have
my
husband
he's
in
an
office
near
me
,
but
I'm
on
my
own
and
in
a
physical
,
in-person
sense
most
days
.
So
I
have
to
be
my
own
boss
in
terms
of
hours
,
in
terms
of
routine
,
and
that's
something
that
can
also
be
a
challenge
,
and
it's
one
of
the
areas
I'm
really
interested
in
as
a
remote
worker
,
because
you
can
feel
that
you
are
challenged
or
may
have
some
difficulties
in
how
you
see
that
working
day
and
those
working
hours
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
13:23
You
know
I
was
as
you
were
talking
.
There
.
I'm
nodding
away
because
I'm
thinking
to
myself
.
That's
something
I
experienced
as
well
.
That
happened
to
me
too
.
It's
kind
of
it's
amazing
when
you
you
start
to
talk
to
other
people
,
especially
other
people
like
you
,
with
your
expertise
and
the
fact
you've
worked
remotely
and
you've
been
to
,
when
you
actually
,
when
I
was
actually
starting
out
,
my
learning
went
down
.
It
just
went
down
the
pan
back
in
2009
because
,
like
,
like
you
say
,
you
have
to
be
more
deliberate
about
um
searching
out
for
searching
out
the
information
,
understanding
what
current
and
you
know
there's
lots
of
information
,
he
said
,
and
there's
sometimes
quite
a
lot
to
actually
trawl
through
on
the
internet
but
,
yeah
,
I
could
,
I
could
really
,
uh
,
understand
that
and
the
overwork
as
well
.
That's
something
probably
I
still
do
,
um
,
and
I
think
when
we
last
spoke
,
I
admitted
to
that
,
didn't
I
?
Rowena Henningan
14:09
when
I
was
but
we're
all
human
and
I
mean
I
do
it
some
days
as
well
,
of
course
we're
all
human
,
but
it's
that
,
it's
having
converse
,
open
conversations
like
this
,
because
you
maybe
don't
have
that
in
.
I
mean
,
I've
worked
in
in
in
real
teams
and
I'm
sure
you
did
as
well
before
,
in
real
office
spaces
where
someone
might
turn
around
and
go
oh
,
you
haven't
had
your
lunch
,
alex
.
Yeah
,
let's
go
for
lunch
.
Yeah
,
sitting
near
you
.
We
don't
have
that
,
and
so
how
do
we
put
in
a
framework
or
a
support
infrastructure
around
us
where
we
build
our
intention
or
our
deliberate
intention
to
make
sure
we
take
our
breaks
,
to
make
sure
that
we
keep
that
balance
?
Wellness and Holistic Remote Work
Rowena Henningan
14:53
As
I
said
,
it
won't
be
perfect
every
day
,
so
don't
beat
yourself
up
about
it
.
But
in
the
main
.
And
then
,
what
can
we
do
?
Like
what
you
and
I've
been
doing
just
have
a
chat
,
compare
notes
,
what
works
for
you
,
share
openly
and
then
reach
out
into
the
virtual
world
,
because
that's
what
I'm
sure
you'll
know
from
the
podcast
as
well
the
community
is
so
supportive
and
you
can
reach
out
to
people
.
And
if
there
is
something
that's
bugging
you
about
your
hours
,
about
your
maybe
stress
levels
,
whatever
it
may
be
,
about
feeling
a
little
bit
socially
isolated
.
There's
a
lot
of
support
out
in
the
remote
work
world
.
In
relation
to
that
,
and
actually
in
the
show
notes
,
there's
a
fabulous
site
called
meet
cafecito
.
I'm
using
my
spanish
,
um
which
is
simply
a
site
where
you
can
meet
other
virtual
workers
for
coffee
,
for
example
,
um
,
and
,
and
it's
available
all
the
time
and
you
can
.
You
can
match
up
on
different
interests
.
There's
other
things
like
that
,
you
know
,
people
can
lean
into
when
they
need
to
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
15:52
They
just
need
to
know
about
it
yeah
,
it's
,
it's
so
true
,
and
I
think
,
uh
,
it's
been
very
,
I
mean
,
you've
been
supportive
and
,
like
you
said
,
when
you
reach
out
to
other
people
,
when
I
first
started
to
reach
out
,
in
fact
,
the
remote
work
life
podcast
itself
started
because
I
was
having
that
lack
of
learning
or
that
lack
of
,
you
know
,
interaction
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
16:12
So
I
started
to
reach
out
to
people
and
they
started
to
give
me
information
and
then
I
started
to
share
that
information
and
,
before
you
know
it
,
the
podcast
is
born
and
I'm
talking
to
you
and
it
just
I
think
the
more
conversations
that
you
have
is
,
the
more
the
conversation
kind
of
obviously
,
the
wider
your
network
grows
and
you
feel
better
.
Actually
,
actually
,
when
I
spoke
to
you
that
time
when
did
we
speak
?
Was
it
last
week
?
Well
,
what
spoke
to
you
?
I
felt
better
after
the
conversation
because
I
think
,
like
you
said
,
sometimes
you
tend
to
beat
yourself
up
about
certain
things
or
you
think
you're
not
doing
something
right
or
you
think
you're
the
only
person
doing
that
thing
,
but
when
you
start
to
speak
to
other
people
,
it
kind
of
it's
a
bit
of
a
pressure
release
,
almost
.
So
I
was
really
appreciative
for
that
.
Rowena Henningan
16:53
Uh
,
appreciate
,
you
know
my
pleasure
,
but
it's
interesting
.
I
mean
,
a
lot
of
teachers
go
out
of
heart
.
I'm
a
teacher
and
I
still
lecture
with
the
university
.
You
know
,
as
you
mentioned
at
the
start
,
and
my
other
work
that
I
might
do
,
but
fundamentally
I'm
a
teacher
and
people
listening
who
relate
to
that
whether
you're
teaching
your
kids
or
you
have
a
hobby
that
you
teach
something
.
The
lot
of
teachers
,
I'm
sure
,
listening
because
we
we
teach
things
that
we're
not
maybe
aware
of
it
.
Rowena Henningan
17:20
But
one
of
the
beauties
of
being
teaching
is
that
you
learn
about
something
in
another
way
yourself
.
When
you
,
when
you
share
with
someone
and
and
,
for
example
,
with
the
self-care
template
we
were
talking
through
your
possible
improvements
in
your
self-care
as
a
remote
worker
,
alex
,
like
I'm
learning
as
well
,
I'm
reminding
myself
and
it's
one
of
the
reasons
I
love
doing
the
work
on
self-leadership
for
remote
workers
and
for
organizations
,
because
it
reminds
me
for
remote
workers
and
for
organisation
,
because
it
reminds
me
.
It
makes
me
,
when
I
look
at
my
calendar
,
go
,
yeah
,
I
need
to
put
another
break
in
there
or
I'm
going
to
go
for
an
extra
walk
,
and
it's
almost
like
preaching
back
myself
.
So
it's
kind
of
selfish
in
a
way
.
But
I
think
in
general
,
when
we're
knowledge
workers
on
computers
and
that's
the
main
profile
of
everyone
listening
,
I'm
sure
,
to
counteract
the
screen
time
,
to
counteract
the
potential
oversaturation
on
digital
devices
and
screens
,
we
need
that
quality
human
connection
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
18:21
We
need
to
share
and
we
need
to
to
explain
honestly
to
people
that
you
know
about
what
we
find
helps
us
and
that
we're
kind
of
leading
into
the
the
whole
idea
of
um
wellness
,
and
I'm
still
myself
understanding
what's
best
for
me
,
physically
,
mentally
,
when
it
comes
to
wellness
,
rowing
and
what
.
What
is
your
?
How
do
you
defy
wellness
,
and
you
know
what
kind
of
things
does
it
encompass
,
then
,
because
that's
you
mentioned
part
of
it
.
What
does
it
encompass
for
a
remote
worker
?
Rowena Henningan
18:54
and
so
I'm
personally
,
for
me
,
so
my
understanding
of
wellness
is
being
at
peace
with
my
whole
self
,
with
my
,
the
holistic
me
.
So
it's
not
just
uh
,
I
get
a
little
bit
esoteric
it's
not
just
the
physical
body
,
the
mental
,
the
brain
,
the
intelligence
,
uh
,
you
know
,
it's
also
the
spiritual
,
the
soul
,
the
whole
lot
.
For
me
that's
,
you
know
,
quite
honest
for
you
.
That's
the
way
I
see
my
life
.
So
and
I
think
people
are
struggling
with
that
even
just
we
think
your
intuition
,
and
when
you're
just
not
sure
,
if
something
feels
a
little
bit
,
you
know
I'm
not
too
good
and
I
don't
know
why
,
which
many
of
us
often
feel
,
and
that's
what
I
kind
of
mean
by
that
intuition
or
soul
or
that
part
of
you
.
Rowena Henningan
19:34
And
for
me
it's
been
a
piece
,
in
the
main
,
being
okay
in
all
those
parts
,
right
,
and
when
I
check
in
with
myself
I'm
sort
of
like
,
and
it's
not
going
to
be
perfect
,
but
it's
asking
myself
in
a
little
bit
of
self-talk
how
am
I
?
Most
days
I
try
and
do
it
intentionally
.
How
am
I
physically
?
Oh
,
I've
got
a
bit
of
a
stiff
back
,
so
I'm
going
to
stand
at
my
standing
desk
today
.
How
am
I
mentally
?
I
think
I'm
okay
,
but
actually
I've
got
a
busy
day
,
so
I
must
make
sure
that
I
go
out
for
lunch
or
I
make
sure
I
speak
,
have
a
proper
conversation
with
my
husband
without
my
daughter
around
,
and
I'm
parents
listening
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
20:15
I
know
what
you
mean
by
that
.
Rowena Henningan
20:15
Yeah
,
and
and
then
just
my
gutter
,
my
spiritual
side
.
How
is
that
does
that
feel
?
Feel
okay
.
And
that
part
for
me
is
to
do
with
my
values
and
to
do
with
me
living
honestly
,
truthfully
,
authentically
,
all
that
stuff
and
that's
important
part
.
And
living
to
my
why
I
chose
remote
work
and
why
I
chose
to
set
up
,
you
know
,
a
company
where
I
could
work
from
anywhere
,
work
that
I
could
work
from
anywhere
.
So
for
me
,
that's
my
big
picture
on
wellness
.
But
,
alex
,
yours
could
be
really
different
,
different
.
Rowena Henningan
20:47
I've
spoken
to
people
where
it's
all
about
their
physical
right
yeah
I've
spoken
to
people
where
academics
,
where
it's
all
about
their
sort
of
intelligence
,
mental
,
okay
.
So
it's
personal
,
it's
very
personal
.
We
can't
have
a
general
idea
of
it
.
What
I'm
more
interested
in
is
asking
people
to
look
at
that
for
themselves
got
you
,
and
is
that
I
mean
the
wellness
?
Alex Wilson-Campbell
21:13
you
mentioned
also
as
well
when
we
were
talking
,
uh
,
previously
,
the
holistic
individual
worker
,
and
that
is
that
part
of
that
.
Then
could
you
describe
what
you
mean
by
the
?
Rowena Henningan
21:24
holistic
is
so
holistic
worker
.
Holistic
is
a
word
that
you
might
hear
used
in
medicine
and
what
it
means
is
that
if
you
go
to
the
gp
and
use
a
sore
throat
,
they'll
ask
you
about
the
sore
throat
,
for
example
.
Right
,
if
you
go
to
a
holistic
practitioner
,
normally
they're
in
the
alternative
space
.
They'll
ask
how
you
are
generally
,
they'll
talk
about
your
mood
,
they'll
ask
questions
about
nutrition
.
They
look
at
the
big
,
the
holistic
,
because
they
they
think
that
that
one
symptom
is
only
one
part
of
the
,
the
solution
Supporting Holistic Remote Work Life
Rowena Henningan
21:54
.
Right
,
and
that
I
mean
that's
where
the
term
,
my
term
,
holistic
work
becomes
and
that's
what
we
bring
,
actually
completely
as
remote
workers
,
normally
in
the
normal
model
where
you're
working
separately
from
that
physical
connection
to
a
company
or
to
colleagues
.
Yes
,
you
might
be
in
a
co-working
,
yes
,
you
might
be
sharing
a
space
,
but
you're
maybe
on
your
own
from
that
perspective
.
Rowena Henningan
22:16
So
how
are
you
?
Holistically
?
Because
,
especially
if
you're
only
working
from
home
,
we
need
to
care
about
work-life
balance
,
we
need
to
care
about
fatigue
,
we
need
to
care
about
screen
time
Because
otherwise
,
because
you're
home
and
your
lives
are
together
,
out
,
fatigue
.
We
need
to
care
about
screen
time
because
otherwise
they
your
whole
,
because
your
home
and
your
life
are
together
,
the
whole
holistic
person
is
going
to
be
affected
,
as
that
worker
in
the
home
.
So
that
that's
what
I
understand
by
and
that's
why
I
ask
I
often
.
I
often
hope
that
people
will
see
the
bigger
picture
now
.
The
other
thing
to
add
to
that
is
what
I've
noticed
,
since
we've
all
gone
fully
emergency
remote
,
is
we
are
all
being
much
more
open
in
these
virtual
worlds
.
We're
sharing
what
we
think
,
we're
sharing
our
home
lives
.
Rowena Henningan
23:02
In
general
,
you're
getting
a
view
into
someone's
kitchen
,
sitting
room
,
bedroom
,
chaos
,
whatever
it
may
be
.
So
that
is
the
full
person
really
,
isn't
it
?
It
is
much
.
It
might
not
be
everything
.
I'm
not
saying
that
we
don't
have
to
have
a
privacy
or
a
private
part
,
but
I
think
through
this
what's
happening
to
us
as
a
world
,
as
a
,
you
know
,
a
global
population
of
workers
.
That's
what's
happened
.
The
holistic
person
has
been
brought
to
work
and
a
lot
of
company
missions
would
say
bring
your
whole
self
to
work
.
And
it's
idealistic
to
a
point
,
but
I
still
think
that
it's
nice
because
it's
human
centered
.
It's
the
full
worker
and
the
full
person
that
comes
to
work
,
and
for
me
,
that's
why
I
use
it
in
in
in
some
of
my
teaching
and
some
of
my
in
a
lot
of
my
work
,
because
I
believe
we
have
to
care
about
the
whole
person
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
23:52
Yeah
,
I
think
we
do
,
and
you're
right
.
I
mean
lots
of
the
experts
,
ceos
from
remote
businesses
I've
spoken
to
.
They've
all
mentioned
similar
sorts
of
words
to
you
being
human-centred
,
bringing
yourself
your
whole
self
to
work
,
being
truthful
as
well
,
not
truthful
to
the
point
that
you're
bearing
all
.
But
you
,
you
know
,
you
have
to
be
truthful
in
the
sense
that
,
or
at
least
you
know
,
build
that
trust
between
each
other
.
And
how
can
you
do
that
?
That's
by
,
obviously
,
the
way
you
work
,
but
also
,
um
,
letting
them
have
an
understanding
,
for
example
,
of
your
home
life
,
so
that
it
can
be
more
,
you
know
,
adapt
to
how
you
are
.
So
,
yeah
,
I
think
this
,
this
,
the
situation
that
we're
in
,
will
probably
,
actually
,
will
probably
begin
to
separate
the
lenders
who
are
,
you
know
,
human
centered
,
from
those
who
are
,
who
are
not
,
you
know
,
because
you
have
to
have
that
empathy
,
don't
you
as
well
,
to
exactly
understand
different
people's
salarios
and
adapt
.
Rowena Henningan
24:50
Exactly
,
and
it's
exactly
what
I
try
to
do
,
even
through
my
conversation
,
with
sharing
that
personal
,
how
remote
working
as
an
ethos
,
way
of
life
is
so
personal
to
me
because
it
is
Because
of
my
life
experience
with
my
daughter
and
I
had
no
choice
during
those
two
years
but
to
bring
the
real
me
to
the
situation
,
because
that
was
what
I
was
faced
with
and
a
lot
of
people
.
There's
a
lot
more
authenticity
,
people
being
real
coming
through
.
But
I
really
like
that
point
and
I
really
want
to
want
to
highlight
what
you
said
,
because
I've
heard
it
too
from
c-suite
,
I've
heard
it
coming
from
that
that
human
center
that
more
and
I
hope
that's
the
case
,
alex
,
because
leaders
who
can
share
a
bit
more
vulnerably
and
openly
,
it
can
make
all
the
difference
it
really
really
can
in
terms
of
team
dynamics
yeah
,
totally
agree
,
totally
agree
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
25:52
And
talking
about
dynamics
of
a
team
,
I
think
,
was
it
you
told
me
in
that
conversation
as
well
,
when
it
comes
to
supporting
each
other
as
well
,
it's
so
much
more
if
you're
working
in
a
remote
team
or
if
you
have
,
if
you
have
a
distributed
team
or
work
within
distributed
team
,
you
have
to
have
that
support
of
each
other
anyway
.
You
have
to
understand
each
other
,
work
together
and
what
I've
seen
it
normally
happens
quite
naturally
within
,
again
,
within
remote
teams
,
that
that
support
network
and
building
that
support
network
um
up
,
um
.
But
if
you
don't
,
for
me
,
when
,
again
,
when
I
first
started
out
I
probably
didn't
have
that
network
,
that
I
should
have
had
that
built
up
over
time
and
I
was
again
quite
deliberate
about
,
about
building
it
up
.
So
that
,
honestly
for
me
,
and
what
prompted
that
post
on
linkedin
,
the
post
I
linked
?
I
posted
a
post
on
about
burnout
just
the
other
day
and
quite
a
few
people
have
actually
um
,
um
she's
seen
that
post
now
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
26:55
But
I
became
burnt
out
because
,
and
the
signs
for
me
was
,
you
know
,
I
was
feeling
tired
,
I
was
,
you
know
,
my
,
my
rate
of
work
wasn't
what
it
was
,
I
wasn't
productive
,
as
you
might
say
.
I
was
probably
isolating
myself
deliberately
as
well
.
Those
were
some
of
the
giveaway
signs
for
me
,
rowena
.
I
mean
,
I
know
there
aren't
typical
giveaway
signs
,
but
are
there
any
sort
of
signs
that
you
see
generally
that
are
signs
of
um
,
signs
of
burnout
,
or
that
you're
not
going
as
well
as
you
should
be
going
?
Rowena Henningan
27:25
so
it's
interesting
because
we
can
only
see
.
We
need
to
notice
those
signs
from
a
baseline
or
a
foundation
.
So
,
say
,
alex
is
normally
quite
chatty
,
or
there's
this
this
and
this
that
we
know
about
working
with
alex
in
a
team
,
then
obviously
if
there's
any
change
in
that
,
that
would
be
a
sign
and
a
good
colleague
or
a
good
manager
would
reach
out
and
say
,
oh
,
you
haven't
had
your
video
on
on
calls
,
you
know
,
or
whatever
,
and
sort
of
tweak
that
out
okay
.
So
that
would
be
what
I
would
advise
people
to
look
at
those
little
changes
in
behaviour
,
okay
.
But
also
,
be
brave
,
have
those
honest
conversations
in
your
direct
network
of
a
team
.
Why
not
do
what
you
know
?
So
you've
told
me
honestly
there
,
alex
.
Alex
,
thanks
for
sharing
that
.
Rowena Henningan
28:16
I'm
known
to
keep
an
eye
out
in
the
future
.
It's
good
to
know
that
when
you
experienced
that
before
,
these
are
the
things
that
happened
.
Is
there
anything
else
that
you
think
I
should
know
so
that
I
can
support
you
about
?
If
you're
feeling
a
little
bit
stressed
or
older
working
,
you
share
with
me
,
you
ask
me
back
.
I
mean
,
so
this
,
some
of
this
does
happen
,
naturally
,
but
part
of
the
work
I
do
is
working
with
teams
to
help
them
have
those
conversations
and
practice
through
a
type
of
role
play
.
Because
you've
been
around
since
2009
,
you're
probably
would
know
,
maybe
,
how
to
do
that
,
how
to
share
,
how
to
,
but
other
people
may
not
or
it
may
not
be
something
they're
comfortable
with
.
Rowena Henningan
29:01
So
,
to
summarize
those
two
points
look
for
a
change
in
behavior
and
then
maybe
check
in
,
okay
and
ask
and
then
also
,
why
wait
for
being
reactive
?
Be
proactive
,
kick
off
a
conversation
with
the
people
that
are
in
your
team
.
Is
there
anything
you
know
I
need
to
know
?
Are
you
not
the
?
Hey
,
how
are
you
?
Hey
,
I'm
okay
.
No
,
tell
me
,
are
you
really
it
?
How
could
you
be
?
Okay
,
you're
homeschooling
.
We're
in
a
pandemic
oh
yeah
etc
.
Rowena Henningan
29:31
And
and
just
tell
me
what's
the
three
crap
things
today
you
know
of
whatever
,
and
people
will
answer
you
believe
it
right
and
you'll
start
that
open
dialogue
.
But
if
you
have
that
kind
of
open
conversation
it
can
lead
into
a
good
supportive
colleague
or
a
good
leader
or
whatever
going
.
And
how
can
we
support
each
other
?
What
could
I
do
for
you
?
What
are
the
signs
,
alex
?
If
there
are
those
signs
,
how
can
I
help
you
?
And
just
chat
it
through
?
It's
not
really
obvious
,
but
it
does
have
to
be
intentional
and
hopefully
people
listening
that
will
resonate
with
them
as
a
way
of
approaching
that
conversation
and
you
mentioned
another
um
where
that
I'm
hearing
quite
often
and
reviews
myself
quite
often
is
,
and
that
is
intent
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
30:14
It's
important
to
have
intent
where
your
self-care
is
concerned
.
And
again
I
,
you
know
,
going
back
to
myself
and
our
initial
conversation
,
I
was
talking
to
you
about
how
my
self-care
is
lacking
at
the
moment
,
or
was
lacking
,
and
I
didn't
really
have
or
stick
to
any
sort
of
plan
or
any
sort
of
activities
.
And
we
started
to
talk
about
having
a
self-care
plan
and
you've
sent
a
self-care
plan
.
In
fact
,
what
I'll
do
is
obviously
I'll
leave
a
link
to
that
plan
in
the
show
notes
.
So
have
a
look
in
the
show
notes
,
because
I
think
it's
really
started
to
help
me
to
to
visualize
how
my
day
is
going
to
be
in
this
scenario
as
it
is
now
,
because
I
had
a
plan
before
.
But
that
plan
is
kind
of
a
bit
different
now
to
what
it
was
before
giving
my
children
a
home
and
I'm
homeschooling
as
well
,
so
that
having
a
plan
is
so
important
,
isn't
it
?
Isn't
it
,
rowena
,
and
you
know
what
?
Maximizing Self-Care for Remote Workers
Rowena Henningan
31:11
yeah
,
tell
us
about
that
well
,
yeah
,
I've
developed
,
or
just
my
framework
for
looking
at
self-care
and
it's
from
my
own
experience
is
having
those
chunks
of
self-care
,
that
30
,
40
minutes
that
you
do
your
Pilates
class
or
yoga
class
,
if
it's
online
,
your
run
your
gym
,
whatever
you
can
manage
and
I
know
we
have
to
.
You
know
,
be
creative
,
maybe
restriction
.
And
often
I
would
ask
people
,
and
they'd
have
it
in
in
mentoring
sessions
and
they'd
have
one
or
two
answers
and
then
I'd
think
,
well
,
what
short
activities
do
you
do
?
And
they're
like
what
do
you
mean
?
Okay
,
or
a
lot
of
parents
would
say
to
me
I
don't
have
time
for
portabellum
,
I
don't
have
any
time
for
self-care
,
and
and
and
.
So
I
would
,
I
would
help
them
to
see
that
we
all
have
a
minute
.
Rowena Henningan
31:57
Most
of
us
are
living
in
the
first
world
.
Rowena Henningan
31:59
We
do
have
a
minute
if
we
want
to
make
it
,
and
we
we
might
need
to
be
creative
,
we
might
need
to
plan
it
,
but
it's
there
and
you
just
need
to
tap
into
it
.
Rowena Henningan
32:08
But
I'm
really
glad
you
used
the
words
visualization
,
because
that's
my
interest
in
psychology
and
the
therapy
is
why
,
when
I
work
through
this
self-care
for
myself
and
with
you
,
when
we
talk
through
these
chunks
,
these
little
activities
,
maybe
some
new
activities
to
explore
.
I
always
try
and
visualize
myself
doing
it
and
I
did
it
with
you
when
we
were
talking
about
the
drumming
,
so
I
hope
we
can
use
that
example
.
Yes
,
so
I
said
to
you
,
if
you
were
going
to
do
your
little
bit
of
drumming
,
you
probably
think
,
well
,
if
I'm
going
to
do
my
drumming
with
my
son
,
I
need
to
have
it
all
set
up
and
get
ready
.
And
I
said
,
well
,
what
about
coming
up
with
like
a
biscuit
tin
or
something
or
box
that
you
could
drum
on
?
And
you
went
,
wow
,
that's
.
And
I
said
exactly
,
that's
a
five
to
ten
minute
fun
way
of
bringing
in
one
little
snapshot
of
drumming
into
the
day
so
it
was
a
great
idea
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
33:02
It
is
a
great
idea
because
I
think
,
as
I
said
to
you
when
we
spoke
about
it
,
when
I
first
started
playing
the
drums
myself
,
that
was
how
it
all
started
.
It
started
with
me
banging
on
my
lap
,
banging
my
knife
and
fork
on
the
dining
room
table
and
annoying
the
hell
out
of
my
mum
,
so
it
was
such
a
great
idea
it's
almost
a
bad
idea
,
you
know
so
if
we
were
doing
more
sessions
,
I
would
actually
tap
into
that
.
Rowena Henningan
33:29
That
was
a
really
positive
memory
for
you
,
a
real
,
you
know
,
brings
up
your
senses
,
remembering
,
tapping
really
good
,
really
good
you
could
share
that
with
your
son
.
Rowena Henningan
33:35
But
then
you
can
picture
yourself
doing
the
old
box
from
a
christmas
present
or
the
biscuit
tin
and
and
just
maybe
challenging
him
into
let's
have
a
little
go
together
.
And
it's
about
that
frequency
of
of
the
activity
because
that's
because
if
we
try
and
do
the
big
chunk
only
we
might
fail
.
So
if
we've
the
five
,
ten
minutes
I
and
suggestion
or
or
activity
that's
shorter
,
that
we
can
pull
on
when
we
have
a
really
busy
day
,
you
can
say
to
yourself
I
have
a
,
I
have
10
minutes
between
meetings
,
I'm
going
to
go
out
and
do
that
,
tap
,
tap
,
tap
,
etc
.
And
that's
that's
where
the
planning
is
still
really
important
.
Rowena Henningan
34:17
With
self-care
,
I
have
to
say
the
most
success
I've
seen
with
clients
bringing
in
a
good
,
healthy
self-care
is
where
they
have
built
it
into
calendars
and
they
have
looked
to
that
profile
and
extended
it
out
.
But
it's
it's
.
You
know
,
I
want
to
encourage
people
because
every
little
bit
helps
and
sometimes
you're
already
maybe
listening
to
a
piece
of
music
on
a
break
or
perhaps
you're
picking
up
a
magazine
and
reading
a
couple
of
articles
.
So
what
also
helps
us
,
alex
,
is
to
say
that
intention
at
the
start
of
doing
that
.
I
am
taking
a
break
from
work
now
and
I'm
going
to
read
those
three
stories
in
my
favourite
magazine
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
35:00
Yeah
,
there's
so
much
there
that
I
could
talk
about
,
and
I
think
,
having
somebody
to
,
having
somebody
like
Rowena
to
speak
I'm
so
lucky
that
I've
,
you
know
,
found
Rowena
,
um
,
and
I'm
lucky
as
well
to
have
other
people
within
my
network
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
35:14
But
that
did
that
didn't
come
about
by
chance
.
That
came
about
by
,
you
know
,
conversations
,
but
all
the
things
that
are
in
your
mind
and
again
,
with
the
conversations
that
you
and
I
had
about
the
drumming
,
that
was
something
that
was
the
back
of
my
mind
,
which
,
through
a
conversation
with
you
,
it
pulled
it
out
to
the
front
.
So
I
was
thinking
to
myself
because
previously
I
was
thinking
to
myself
how
am
I
going
to
teach
my
son
to
play
the
drums
and
how
can
I
build
that
into
sort
of
like
my
routine
?
And
I
was
thinking
about
the
complicated
things
like
the
practice
pad
and
the
,
the
drumsticks
and
the
,
the
drumsticks
and
the
stand
and
setting
it
up
and
all
this
sort
of
thing
.
But
Rowena
was
able
to
just
simplify
it
for
me
.
You
know
it
was
just
.
It
made
things
so
much
easier
,
and
so
it's
important
to
have
the
,
the
people
who
can
help
you
with
it
,
like
Rowena
.
But
also
,
I
think
another
important
aspect
really
is
having
somebody
to
be
accountable
to
for
it
,
so
that
you
can
actually
maintain
it
right
thank
you
.
Rowena Henningan
36:08
Exactly
,
and
all
the
psychology
we
know
about
making
commitments
,
changing
ideas
and
suggestions
into
real
behavior
and
habits
,
exactly
that
,
and
that's
why
it
does
help
to
work
with
someone
and
and
to
link
it
back
to
productivity
and
overall
effectiveness
and
that
whole
holistic
remote
worker
.
I
want
to
highlight
something
we
spoke
about
as
well
.
Alex
,
you
know
I'm
using
a
bit
of
minimum
coaching
here
,
but
you
you
know
that
taking
that
10
minute
break
and
going
away
and
connecting
with
your
hands
on
the
drum
and
listening
to
the
sound
you're
playing
out
and
progressing
along
that
little
beat
,
that
that
will
help
you
be
a
better
remote
worker
when
you
come
back
to
the
machine
yeah
because
and
for
anyone
who
wants
,
anyone
who's
feeling
a
bit
skeptical
just
even
think
of
what
we've
lost
in
commute
time
social
interact
from
being
in
an
office
,
the
thing
like
if
you
could
get
a
little
image
here
of
all
that
commute
time
people
grabbing
you
for
a
coffee
,
you
going
down
to
the
shops
,
you
popping
out
for
your
lunch
.
Rowena Henningan
37:13
Over
here
we're
in
the
home
only
so
.
So
I
think
there's
such
gaps
there
and
that's
why
we
have
to
be
.
That's
the
reason
for
being
more
intentional
.
Movement
has
gone
down
with
homework
only
.
We
know
that
.
I
mean
productivity
has
been
maintained
.
Embracing Breaks to Enhance Productivity
Rowena Henningan
37:32
But
part
of
being
that
holistic
remote
worker
is
also
saying
I
need
a
break
.
It
will
make
me
better
,
if
you
need
to
say
that
to
yourself
.
When
I
come
back
,
I
will
be
more
productive
,
I
will
be
more
alert
and
uh
yeah
,
it's
been
a
pleasure
to
work
through
with
you
,
but
I
have
to
say
that
the
drums
you
gave
me
a
really
gem
of
a
one
,
alex
,
because
drums
are
so
tactile
and
assassin
yeah
it's
a
really
lovely
example
no
,
it's
good
and
it's
like
I
said
it's
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
37:59
It's
simplified
things
for
me
,
and
it's
been
like
I
said
I'm
very
lucky
to
have
had
you
come
um
into
into
my
world
and
,
at
the
right
moment
in
time
as
well
,
to
kind
of
show
me
that
.
So
that's
part
of
my
part
and
parcel
of
my
routine
,
though
,
but
I
really
want
to
thank
you
.
I
mean
,
I've
got
so
many
more
questions
that
I'd
like
to
ask
you
um
,
but
I
know
we're
coming
towards
the
end
of
time
now
,
so
I
just
wanted
to
thank
you
for
your
time
.
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