FROM ARCHIVE With WordPress powering a third of the internet, Alex Denning offers a look at his journey and the innovative strategies his agency employs to support WordPress businesses. From his early days at Miniclip to founding WP Shout and ultimately Ellipsis, Alex’s story is a testament to the power of passion and persistence.
Curious about the steps of building a successful remote team? Alex opens up about the challenges he faced transitioning from a solo freelancer to managing a diverse team. Drawing from the principles in “High Output Management,” he emphasizes the importance of delegation and trust. You’ll find out how Alex leverages his network within the WordPress community and the strategic roles within his team to propel Ellipsis Marketing forward. Learn why autonomy and progress are crucial for a thriving team dynamic.
Struggling with remote work productivity? This episode covers mastering the art of “deep work.” Alex shares practical tips on using tools like Basecamp for asynchronous communication and timers for focused work periods. Whether you’re trying to balance homeschooling or seeking ways to maintain your energy levels, this conversation offers tips to optimize your remote work environment.
Looking for Remote Work?
Click here remoteworklife.io to access a private beta list of remote jobs in sales, marketing, and strategy — plus get podcasts, real-world tips and business insights from founders, CEOs, and remote leaders. subscribe to my free newsletter
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WordPress Marketing Agency Founder's Journey
Alex Wilson-Campbell
0:00
Hello
everybody
.
It's
Alex
again
from
the
Remote
Work
Life
podcast
.
I
hope
you're
doing
well
.
I
have
another
exceptional
guest
with
me
today
.
I
have
Alex
Denning
,
who
is
the
founder
of
Ellipsis
Marketing
.
Now
,
ellipsis
is
a
digital
marketing
agency
for
WordPress
businesses
,
and
their
clients
are
WordPress
product
businesses
and
WordPress
agencies
,
and
I
want
to
say
a
big
thank
you
,
alex
,
to
you
for
joining
me
today
on
the
Remote
Work
Life
podcast
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
0:31
Yeah
,
thanks
for
having
me
Excellent
and
,
as
I
always
do
,
I'm
quite
inquisitive
when
it
comes
to
getting
to
know
my
guests
.
I
want
to
know
their
backstory
.
How
do
they
get
to
where
they
are
now
?
So
,
alex
,
uh
,
please
tell
us
.
Tell
us
,
how
did
you
get
to
uh
,
becoming
the
founder
of
ellipsis
?
Alex Denning
0:55
sure
?
Um
,
so
I
have
been
working
remotely
full-time
for
the
last
four
years
now
and
I've
been
running
Ellipsis
for
most
of
that
time
.
As
you
mentioned
,
we
live
in
the
WordPress
ecosystem
,
so
WordPress
powers
a
third
of
the
internet
and
there's
a
big
ecosystem
of
products
and
agencies
product
conservators
around
that
,
and
those
businesses
help
people
do
more
stuff
with
their
websites
.
So
like
on
the
agency
side
,
for
example
.
So
like
all
the
Facebook's
non-Facebook
product
stuff
runs
on
WordPress
.
One
of
our
clients
handles
that
for
them
On
the
product
side
.
You
might
want
a
contact
form
on
WordPress
and
one
of
our
clients
handles
that
for
them
On
the
product
side
.
You
might
want
a
contact
form
and
then
you
can
post
a
plug-in
to
do
that
.
Or
you
might
want
a
contact
form
which
integrates
with
your
CRM
and
does
a
whole
bunch
of
automation
stuff
and
also
lets
you
sell
stuff
and
you
can
see
how
it
gets
out
of
hand
quite
quickly
.
That's
where
we
live
,
that's
what
we
do
.
Alex Denning
2:04
Um
,
how
did
I
end
up
here
?
I
,
I
guess
by
accident
,
because
,
um
,
I
like
solving
problems
,
um
,
and
,
yeah
,
I
get
to
solve
them
all
day
and
people
pay
me
money
for
them
.
So
I've
been
involved
in
,
like
,
the
wordpress
space
for
a
long
time
,
um
.
So
I
knew
a
lot
of
people
around
there
,
so
I
uh
started
off
just
doing
bits
of
work
,
freelance
,
um
,
and
it
was
stuff
I
enjoyed
doing
.
And
then
I
was
as
a
freelancer
,
I
was
booked
out
the
whole
time
.
So
at
that
point
it
was
either
like
,
do
you
do
that
forever
?
Maybe
put
your
rates
up
a
bit
?
Um
,
I
decided
that
I
didn't
want
to
do
that
.
I
wanted
to
be
able
to
solve
more
problems
for
people
,
um
,
so
that's
why
I
started
the
agency
and
wordpress
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
2:56
I
didn't
realize
it
was
a
third
of
the
internet
that
wordpress
powers
at
the
minute
.
I'm
a
big
wordpress
fan
myself
.
It's
just
such
an
intuitive
piece
of
actually
you
know
what
I
mean
if
it's
intuitive
to
me
.
Maybe
that's
minute
I'm
a
big
wordpress
fan
myself
.
It's
just
such
an
intuitive
piece
of
well
,
actually
,
you
know
what
I
mean
.
If
it's
intuitive
to
me
,
maybe
that's
because
I'm
in
it
quite
often
.
I'm
not
a
program
or
anything
like
that
,
but
I
can
actually
get
work
my
way
around
it
now
that
I've
been
in
it
for
years
.
But
it's
one
of
those
things
that
is
just
so
relatively
easy
to
understand
for
a
newbie
once
you
sort
of
get
your
head
around
it
,
would
you
say
a
big
problem
,
a
big
project
that
,
uh
,
we
,
the
community
,
have
been
working
on
.
Alex Denning
3:30
It's
open
source
,
so
,
like
,
uh
,
everyone
can
contribute
.
Um
,
a
big
problem
we
have
been
working
on
is
how
to
make
this
initial
experience
a
lot
better
.
Um
,
so
last
year
,
I
guess
the
end
of
the
year
before
that
um
.
So
last
year
,
I
guess
the
end
of
the
year
before
that
uh
,
with
wordpress
5
,
there
was
a
new
editor
,
um
,
which
has
some
teething
issues
,
but
going
forward
,
that's
going
to
make
that
a
lot
easier
to
do
.
Um
and
the
.
The
market
that
everyone's
interested
in
,
um
is
the
,
the
small
business
with
no
website
.
Um
,
because
that's
how
a
lot
of
people
get
started
and
those
obviously
sometimes
turn
into
bigger
businesses
,
um
,
or
even
just
medium-sized
ones
.
Um
,
and
it's
that
initial
experience
that
,
uh
,
we're
trying
to
work
on
.
So
,
yeah
,
you're
I
.
I
could
tell
you
didn't
want
to
say
it's
hard
to
use
,
yeah
I
didn't
want
to
say
that
I
mean
it
is
at
times
.
Alex Denning
4:24
We're
working
on
it
,
yeah
so
it's
hard
to
use
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
4:28
Don't
bother
using
it
,
just
go
to
alex
and
he'll
sort
you
out
.
Basically
is
what
we're
trying
to
say
.
But
I
think
what's
so
attractive
about
wordpress
where
small
business
is
a
business
is
a
concern
is
the
,
I
suppose
,
the
barrier
to
entry
.
Well
,
if
you
look
beyond
the
tech
,
it's
,
it's
pretty
,
it's
pretty
good
and
it's
you
can
bolt
things
on
and
it's
scalable
and
you
can
make
it
look
really
professional
if
you're
working
with
the
right
people
.
Alex Denning
4:52
So
,
uh
,
yeah
,
exactly
so
.
So
we
don't
make
websites
.
Our
clients
are
the
people
who
make
the
stuff
that
you
can
bolt
on
um
.
So
yeah
,
we're
all
all
working
on
that
yeah
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
5:04
So
alex
is
the
guy
that
can
really
sort
of
,
yeah
,
um
,
do
all
the
singing
and
dancing
in
terms
of
the
,
the
marketing
behind
all
of
that
,
and
but
I
think
,
yeah
,
wordpress
is
.
I
love
wordpress
.
What
can
I
say
anyway
?
Well
,
alex
,
I
mean
,
I
know
this
as
well
from
looking
.
Obviously
,
I've
done
my
my
background
research
on
you
.
You
did
a
,
you
did
a
degree
in
in
politics
and
international
studies
and
you've
had
quite
an
interesting
journey
since
since
then
.
Tell
us
a
bit
more
about
that
I
I'm
especially
interested
in
in
mini
clip
yeah
,
so
,
um
,
yeah
,
so
,
I
did
a
degree
in
politics
.
Alex Denning
5:48
Um
,
I
have
never
really
used
it
.
I
guess
it
like
taught
me
how
to
like
think
critically
.
Um
,
I
do
use
that
a
lot
,
so
I
can
I
can
write
very
long
things
,
so
maybe
that
was
useful
.
Remote Work and Team Building
Alex Denning
6:06
Um
,
before
that
,
though
,
I
uh
worked
at
miniclipcom
,
um
,
which
is
now
a
mobile
games
company
.
At
the
time
,
it
was
for
,
like
,
free
casual
games
Um
years
ago
.
Minicabcom
was
uh
like
the
place
where
you'd
spend
your
lunch
breaks
,
um
,
and
I
got
that
job
because
I
knew
someone
from
the
WordPress
community
who
was
their
director
of
web
development
,
who
,
uh
,
long
story
short
,
I
now
co-author
a
weekly
newsletter
with
um
,
and
he
doesn't
.
He
also
works
remotely
now
and
doesn't
work
at
Winnipeg
as
well
oh
,
so
yeah
,
I
did
this
.
Alex Denning
6:59
I
did
their
social
media
um
,
which
is
cool
,
and
that
I
learned
a
lot
about
that
.
That
was
an
office
job
in
London
and
,
yeah
,
it
was
my
job
to
keep
the
community
updated
about
the
stuff
we're
doing
with
our
games
.
That's
something
a
lot
about
,
like
the
working
in
a
results-orientated
environment
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
7:27
Yeah
,
it
was
good
fun
In
terms
of
you
obviously
made
your
progress
now
where
you
,
I
suppose
,
went
more
and
graduated
towards
the
entrepreneurial
side
of
things
.
You
had
WordPress
,
WP
Shout
,
which
looks
like
again
very
much
a
strong
WordPress
connection
there
,
and
tell
us
a
bit
about
that
and
then
,
after
actually
actually
told
us
about
,
after
you've
told
us
about
that
,
tell
us
about
your
typical
clients
at
the
moment
sure
,
um
,
so
don't
be
.
Alex Denning
7:58
Shout
is
a
WordPress
development
tutorial
blog
,
and
and
it's
still
going
today
,
although
I
haven't
run
it
for
I
think
like
six
or
seven
years
.
Um
,
and
yeah
,
it
teaches
people
wordpress
development
.
When
I
was
first
figuring
out
stuff
with
wordpress
,
uh
,
I
wanted
to
know
how
to
do
things
and
I
couldn't
find
that
.
Um
,
and
,
being
quite
naive
at
the
time
,
I
thought
,
oh
,
I
know
I
can
figure
this
out
and
I
know
all
the
answers
.
So
I
made
that
website
and
that
was
where
I
first
got
to
see
what
growing
an
audience
looked
like
and
all
that
stuff
.
And
that
was
really
helpful
earlier
on
for
just
figuring
stuff
out
.
So
that's
also
where
a
lot
of
the
WordPress
connections
come
from
.
So
,
even
though
that
was
seven
years
ago
,
you
can
draw
a
straight
line
through
there
.
That
was
our
new
Bennett
mini
clip
,
and
here
we
are
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
8:58
And
you
haven't
looked
back
since
.
And
now
you're
working
.
You've
established
yourself
as
a
freelance
worker
.
How
was
that
transition
from
freelance
to
to
a
business
owner
?
Alex Denning
9:09
yeah
.
So
,
um
,
as
I
said
,
I
was
as
a
freelancer
.
I
was
booked
out
all
the
time
,
um
,
it
was
just
a
good
problem
to
have
,
but
still
a
problem
,
um
.
So
I
knew
I
wanted
to
be
able
to
solve
more
problems
and
that
meant
growing
a
team
.
Um
,
to
start
with
,
I
just
gradually
started
working
with
freelancers
on
individual
projects
,
um
,
and
then
over
time
,
I
started
getting
a
bit
more
revenue
and
just
took
things
very
slowly
.
Alex Denning
9:45
Um
,
there
are
four
of
us
now
,
um
,
we're
currently
hiring
number
five
.
Um
,
and
we're
now
at
a
point
where
we
can
pick
that
up
quite
quickly
.
Um
,
because
we've
got
all
the
structures
in
place
.
But
it
,
yeah
,
it
took
a
while
to
to
really
get
used
to
it
.
I
had
to
.
I
now
don't
know
what's
going
on
with
client
work
In
the
best
possible
way
,
yeah
,
but
it
took
me
,
like
,
I
guess
,
a
year
,
18
months
,
to
be
okay
with
that
.
We're
now
at
a
point
where
I
can
totally
trust
my
team
to
get
on
with
stuff
,
and
I
guess
it
wasn't
I
didn't
trust
them
before
.
It
was
that
I
just
needed
to
let
it
go
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
10:28
It's
funny
because
we
just
had
a
conversation
with
another
remote
working
practitioner
who's
been
in
the
game
for
quite
a
while
,
pilar
Orti
,
and
she
was
literally
words
you've
just
described
there
,
the
words
you've
just
articulated
,
are
just
exactly
what
she
said
in
terms
of
letting
go
and
just
allowing
the
team
to
get
on
with
it
.
Alex Denning
10:53
Something
that
I
kind
of
big
,
really
useful
book
I
read
last
year
.
It's
called
High
Output
Management
.
It's
by
the
former
president
of
intel
.
Um
,
there's
one
thing
in
that
he
was
,
uh
,
saying
that
he's
this
analogy
where
I
want
to
delegate
to
you
holding
these
scissors
.
And
you
give
your
team
member
the
scissors
,
but
then
you
hold
on
to
them
by
the
top
so
they
can't
take
them
.
And
then
you
say
,
why
didn't
you
take
,
why
aren't
you
holding
the
scissors
?
I
,
it's
because
you
haven't
let
go
of
the
scissors
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
11:27
And
I
just
read
that
and
thought
,
oh
,
that's
me
I
like
that
analogy
,
though
,
because
it's
just
yeah
,
it's
good
,
it's
good
,
it
says
everything
.
Only
one
goal
.
I
mean
,
if
you
don't
let
go
of
the
scissors
,
how
are
they
supposed
to
get
on
with
things
and
start
the
work
?
Alex Denning
11:41
yeah
,
so
after
uh
,
I
,
you
know
,
let
go
of
being
responsible
for
holding
the
scissors
,
then
we
start
to
make
a
bit
of
progress
excellent
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
11:53
So
what's
the
makeup
of
your
team
now
?
Alex Denning
11:56
you
said
you've
got
four
on
the
team
yeah
,
so
,
um
,
we
have
a
head
of
content
and
conversions
and
Natasha
leads
our
content
and
conversion
focused
projects
.
So
that's
like
regular
content
marketing
stuff
,
which
is
probably
most
of
our
work
day
to
day
,
as
well
as
our
copy
projects
.
And
recently
we've
had
an
into
the
mix
as
well
,
um
,
because
again
,
it
was
just
responding
to
what
people
were
asking
us
for
.
Um
,
and
people
were
asking
us
for
or
other
people
weren't
doing
their
and
it
was
a
really
good
opportunity
,
so
we
figured
we
needed
to
step
in
for
people
.
Um
,
uh
,
kaylee's
our
SEO
specialist
.
She's
our
SEO
content
manager
.
She
does
our
specialist
SEO
stuff
and
also
a
lot
of
the
content
process
.
She
joined
Zella
this
year
Just
more
capacity
and
expertise
around
SEO
,
which
has
been
great
so
far
.
Peter
handles
our
promotion
and
outreach
stuff
.
We're
currently
hiring
a
conversions
manager
,
um
,
who's
gonna
just
add
more
capacity
,
um
,
for
our
conversion
focus
projects
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
13:20
Okay
,
okay
yeah
,
that's
good
.
I
mean
what
I'd
suggest
as
well
.
If
that
is
you
,
if
you're
listening
out
there
and
you
are
a
conversions
manager
or
have
worked
in
cro
,
yeah
,
yeah
we
stopped
using
cro
because
our
clients
didn't
know
what
it
meant
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
13:42
Yeah
,
exactly
cro
,
if
you
,
if
you
know
what
that
word
means
,
then
you're
probably
the
person
for
this
job
.
So
what
I
urge
you
to
do
is
get
across
to
Ellipsis'
website
,
which
is
getellipsiscom
,
and
have
a
look
before
you
reach
out
and
speak
to
anybody
or
reply
to
the
job
or
anything
like
that
.
Alex Denning
14:07
look
at
the
website
something
I
should
do
which
I
haven't
done
is
we
don't
have
a
careers
page
,
so
if
you
want
to
actually
apply
,
uh
it's
off
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
14:13
we
work
remotelycom
I'll
tell
you
what
,
though
.
There's
so
many
small
businesses
that
don't
have
a
careers
page
,
but
I
think
just
as
important
as
the
career
having
a
careers
page
is
have
is
having
the
content
,
so
that
people
can
understand
what
the
business
is
about
.
Alex Denning
14:28
And
yeah
,
so
we
do
have
that
,
and
we're
so
small
that
when
people
tell
me
that
they've
been
following
us
for
a
long
time
in
their
cover
letters
,
I
just
don't
believe
them
there's
a
tip
for
you
don't
just
uh
put
that
into
your
cover
letter
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
14:46
Make
it
a
bit
more
,
pay
a
bit
more
attention
to
detail
,
and
I
think
it
would
help
as
well
if
you
know
a
thing
or
two
,
I
guess
,
about
wordpress
,
I'd
assume
yeah
,
although
that's
not
actually
,
that's
not
as
essential
as
you
would
think
,
we
can
teach
the
wordpress
stuff
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
15:02
I
want
the
like
marketing
expertise
okay
,
well
,
big
clue
for
you
there
.
I
mean
,
it's
not
every
day
that
you
get
to
hear
the
founder
or
the
the
owner
of
a
business
talk
about
the
kind
of
person
that
they
want
in
the
job
,
so
it's
a
massive
clue
for
you
there
.
If
you're
,
you're
out
there
listening
and
you
need
need
work
at
the
moment
.
So
check
out
,
get
ellipsiscom
and
the
team's
content
,
seo
,
promotions
and
outreach
and
you're
that
conversions
person
who's
just
waiting
to
apply
to
this
job
.
Alex Denning
15:32
Yeah
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
15:33
Okay
,
who
knows
,
who
knows
,
okay
.
So
we've
talked
a
bit
about
Ellipsis
and
how
it
all
got
together
and
a
little
bit
,
I
suppose
in
a
little
while
we're
going
to
talk
about
what
this
podcast
was
really
.
What
I
really
want
to
talk
about
this
podcast
because
Alex
is
really
focused
on
really
being
able
to
focus
while
working
,
and
I
know
that's
a
big
problem
,
especially
for
people
who
are
new
to
remote
work
,
but
it's
not
exclusively
to
that
,
um
,
to
those
sorts
of
people
,
because
remote
work
has
its
challenges
in
terms
of
work
and
in
the
I
guess
,
in
the
climate
that
we're
living
in
now
,
we're
not
going
to
obviously
go
too
much
into
that
,
but
in
the
climate
that
we're
living
in
now
,
I
myself
am
at
home
.
Believe
it
or
not
,
I'm
at
home
with
my
kids
you
would
never
know
but
I'm
mixing
homeschooling
with
work
.
So
I'm
trying
to
really
put
slots
in
place
where
I
can
do
the
homeschooling
,
which
we
did
a
bit
in
the
morning
,
and
then
focus
on
my
work
and
then
other
stuff
around
that
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
16:45
So
alex
,
I
hope
can
help
me
in
terms
of
understanding
what's
called
deep
working
.
Have
you
ever
heard
that
expression
before
?
Deep
working
?
So
we're
going
to
focus
a
bit
on
that
in
a
moment
,
but
before
we
go
to
that
,
I
want
to
talk
a
bit
more
about
your
team
,
Transitioning to Remote Work Challenges
Alex Wilson-Campbell
17:00
alex
.
In
terms
of
what
because
I
mean
I
know
there's
some
,
obviously
,
managers
out
there
,
they're
listening
in
terms
of
how
they've
gone
from
being
in
a
co-located
scenario
to
now
being
in
a
scenario
where
they're
forced
to
work
remotely
and
they've
had
some
challenges
themselves
or
having
some
challenges
themselves
.
What
challenges
do
you
have
when
you
were
first
starting
out
,
other
than
you
mentioned
the
,
the
trust
issue
and
the
letting
go
issue
,
any
other
challenges
that
you
had
?
Alex Denning
17:28
yeah
.
So
,
um
,
I
do
think
that
doing
remote
work
is
hard
.
I
think
it's
really
good
,
but
I
also
think
it's
hard
,
um
,
and
it's
.
It
took
me
like
years
to
get
properly
into
a
rhythm
that
really
worked
long
term
.
So
if
,
yeah
,
as
we're
recording
this
,
there's
a
global
pandemic
going
on
,
and
if
you
are
working
from
home
for
the
first
time
,
or
you
normally
do
it
one
or
two
days
a
week
,
and
now
you're
doing
it
all
the
time
,
it
is
going
to
be
a
shock
,
and
my
fear
is
that
unless
yeah
,
I
guess
unless
people
take
the
,
I
feel
like
people
might
have
a
bad
time
and
that
would
be
bad
,
and
that
,
instead
of
this
being
a
great
remote
work
opportunity
,
people
might
experience
it
for
the
first
time
.
I
think
it's
rubbish
.
Um
,
yeah
,
yeah
,
and
then
go
back
to
it
.
It
is
hard
,
it
doesn't
require
adapting
.
Um
,
there's
a
couple
of
things
that
we
do
.
So
this
deep
work
idea
is
a
thing
that
I
like
.
Alex Denning
18:42
Personally
,
I'm
a
big
fan
of
um
.
We
structure
our
communication
asynchronously
.
Um
,
whether
you
want
to
do
that
for
working
from
home
for
two
months
,
I
don't
know
,
because
it
requires
,
like
,
I
guess
,
if
you
,
if
you
,
communicate
differently
,
it
requires
a
totally
different
way
of
working
,
of
course
.
So
we
use
Basecamp
,
and
that
means
that
it
is
set
up
for
asynchronous
communication
,
ie
everything's
on
a
task
and
when
you
need
something
,
you
can
say
what
you
need
on
that
task
.
It
then
goes
to
whoever
you've
sent
it
to
and
they've
got
the
time
to
write
like
a
proper
response
when
it
suits
them
,
um
,
rather
than
just
sending
off
pings
through
slack
or
whatever
um
and
demanding
uh
attention
immediately
.
That
lets
people
like
we
talk
about
protecting
attention
um
,
and
respond
when
they're
able
to
.
For
me
,
that
that
is
that
unlocks
like
the
.
The
big
benefit
of
uh
remote
work
,
which
is
you
can
set
up
your
day
to
be
able
to
focus
how
you
want
to
do
.
If
you've
got
to
deal
with
uh
like
teaching
your
kids
in
the
morning
,
then
you
can
set
aside
the
time
later
on
,
um
to
make
the
progress
.
That's
really
interesting
,
um
.
We'll
talk
about
them
more
in
a
second
.
Alex Denning
20:14
One
of
the
other
things
,
though
,
that
we
have
done
,
that
has
been
um
really
good
,
and
I
don't
know
that
that
many
remote
companies
do
it
.
We
sat
down
to
try
and
work
out
what
was
good
and
bad
about
being
remote
,
and
one
of
the
things
you
do
lose
is
kind
of
just
spontaneous
collaboration
,
yes
,
so
we
just
tried
to
work
out
how
to
add
that
back
in
.
So
we
ended
up
with
a
monthly
co-working
day
.
So
we
specifically
set
aside
a
day
where
we
specifically
co-work
and
we
do
screen
sharing
and
we
do
a
group
call
.
I'll
do
a
team
update
to
start
with
and
then
we'll
go
through
some
general
issues
and
then
,
if
we've
got
specific
things
to
work
through
even
if
we
don't
need
everyone
there
,
we've
got
everyone
there
and
then
that
creates
the
opportunities
for
the
more
random
collaboration
you
might
get
.
Alex Denning
21:14
In
an
office
you
also
lose
some
general
chats
harder
.
Yeah
,
definitely
,
if
you
use
Slack
,
maybe
you
can
have
a
general
channel
or
a
random
channel
and
do
that
kind
of
thing
there
.
As
we
don't
,
that's
a
bit
harder
.
So
solution
again
we
just
schedule
a
monthly
call
in
which
we
just
have
a
chat
.
I
know
some
people
do
that
weekly
because
we're
in
different
time
zones
.
We
found
that
monthly
worked
better
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
21:53
Is
everything
that
you
do
?
Is
everything
that
you
do
asynchronous
,
then
,
given
that
you're
in
different
time
zones
?
Alex Denning
22:00
so
,
uh
,
we
default
to
asynchronous
,
um
,
it
probably
sounds
a
lot
more
efficient
than
it
is
in
the
.
I
haven't
looked
at
base
camp
since
we
started
recording
,
but
as
soon
as
we're
finished
I
will
check
it
,
um
,
and
if
if
anyone
needs
anything
from
me
,
I
will
respond
to
that
immediately
.
Base
camp
also
does
have
one-to-one
chat
as
well
as
group
chat
,
um
,
and
we
do
use
those
a
fair
bit
.
In
general
,
though
,
the
like
general
approach
is
to
uh
respond
asynchronously
,
um
,
and
when
you
do
need
that
time
to
to
say
I'm
doing
something
else
,
I'm
not
going
to
respond
to
stuff
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
22:42
Uh
,
that's
absolutely
fine
no
,
I
get
it
and
I
it's
.
I
hear
what
you're
saying
as
well
about
the
adaptation
and
I
I
am
slightly
worried
as
well
in
terms
of
the
,
the
,
the
actual
.
You
mentioned
the
pandemic
because
originally
the
kind
of
posts
that
you
were
seeing
across
social
media
were
okay
.
So
now
that
we're
we're
being
forced
to
work
remotely
,
everybody's
going
to
see
the
benefits
of
working
remotely
.
But
that's
not
necessarily
the
case
because
there's
so
many
.
There
is
a
period
of
adaptation
and
you
know
,
my
fear
is
that
people
may
kind
of
shy
away
from
it
because
of
the
.
This
whole
experience
is
just
everything
on
top
of
them
all
at
once
,
when
you
know
that
this
experience
that
we're
we're
I
guess
we're
in
now
to
me
is
not
really
a
true
reflection
of
what
it
is
to
to
be
able
to
work
remotely
because
you
have
so
much
more
food
in
them
than
you
do
right
at
this
moment
,
you
know
.
Alex Denning
23:40
So
,
yeah
,
yeah
,
so
I'm
working
from
home
right
now
.
I
normally
go
to
a
co-working
space
.
Even
that's
uh
,
that's
just
like
going
to
an
office
and
I
spend
my
mornings
there
and
I
cycle
in
and
it's
nice
being
at
home
all
the
time
.
I
don't
like
doing
that
and
I
sort
of
like
took
some
time
to
adapt
.
What
getting
a
co-working
space
was
actually
one
of
the
things
that
uh
took
that
time
,
um
,
and
was
really
helpful
.
So
,
so
,
if
it
isn't
because
you're
having
a
crisis
,
just
give
it
a
bit
more
time
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
24:13
Yeah
,
well
,
yeah
,
I'd
second
that
because
it's
just
,
you
shouldn't
be
stuck
in
one
room
or
one
place
,
you
should
have
a
bit
of
variety
there
.
But
yeah
,
we
can't
because
of
the
way
things
are
at
the
moment
.
But
okay
,
well
,
yeah
,
I
mean
similar
challenges
.
I
mean
,
don't
just
think
you're
alone
in
terms
of
the
challenges
.
As
you've
heard
,
alex
has
had
his
challenges
.
It's
taken
him
a
while
to
adapt
.
It
took
me
a
while
to
adapt
as
well
.
So
I
just
think
the
best
thing
to
do
is
just
talk
to
somebody
who
has
either
had
similar
challenges
to
yourself
or
just
just
talk
,
just
just
um
,
talk
about
them
,
and
,
like
Alex
did
he
,
they
talked
about
you
know
what
the
benefits
are
and
what
remote
work
is
all
about
,
and
I
think
that
communication
in
itself
,
getting
it
out
into
the
open
,
can
actually
,
uh
,
at
least
start
to
remedy
the
situation
.
You
know
?
Alex Denning
25:12
Yeah
,
for
sure
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
25:15
In
terms
of
,
you
know
,
let's
talk
pre-pandemic
.
Yeah
,
what
effect
did
remote
work
have
on
your
life
in
general
?
Alex Denning
25:35
life
in
general
.
So
I
guess
the
main
thing
is
that
,
uh
,
the
most
like
practical
thing
is
that
my
wife
needs
to
move
for
work
,
like
two
years
ago
,
and
sure
,
no
problem
.
And
if
,
uh
,
I'd
been
stuck
somewhere
else
,
that
would
be
really
difficult
.
Having
that
,
uh
,
flexibility
is
huge
.
And
if
she
needs
me
again
like
I
guess
I
missed
my
co-working
space
but
,
uh
,
I'm
sure
they'll
have
me
back
or
I
can
find
a
new
one
is
those
I
can
work
from
anywhere
.
That's
the
big
one
.
Alex Denning
26:03
Um
,
and
yeah
,
I
mean
,
internally
,
we
talk
a
lot
about
like
setting
the
environment
that
you
need
personally
to
be
able
to
do
really
good
work
.
Um
,
and
that
is
,
uh
,
yeah
,
I
mean
that's
like
what
that's
.
One
of
the
things
that
really
motivates
me
is
having
a
really
good
impact
,
having
to
do
really
good
stuff
.
Um
,
and
yeah
,
this
like
deep
work
idea
we've
touched
on
is
one
of
the
ways
that
I
personally
find
really
effective
for
me
to
be
able
to
do
that
.
Um
,
like
,
I
guess
I
run
a
remote
business
and
that's
pretty
cool
,
I
think
,
if
we'd
have
to
,
if
we'd
have
to
get
an
office
or
whatever
.
Alex Denning
26:52
That's
a
whole
different
world
.
I
don't
know
how
to
lease
an
office
.
I
don't
want
to
know
how
to
lease
an
office
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
26:58
I
don't
blame
you
with
all
the
costs
and
all
that
sort
of
thing
,
but
if
you're
comfortable
in
that
environment
,
which
not
everybody's
comfortable
with
remote
work
,
but
if
you
are
,
then
do
it
,
okay
,
well
,
I
I
mean
,
as
we've
touched
on
deep
work
,
let's
let's
get
into
the
whole
topic
of
deep
work
,
because
this
could
provide
you
with
some
,
some
ideas
in
terms
of
,
uh
,
not
just
the
scenario
you're
in
at
the
moment
,
but
your
future
,
how
you
can
apply
it
to
,
to
your
work
in
general
,
not
you
know
.
So
let's
,
let's
get
into
that
,
shall
we
?
What
?
What
does
it
mean
?
What
does
deep
work
mean
?
And
sure
,
yeah
,
let's
do
that
.
Alex Denning
27:35
Do
work
as
a
thesis
by
a
computer
science
professor
called
cal
newport
um
,
in
which
he
argues
that
being
able
to
focus
for
sustained
periods
of
time
is
increasingly
a
competitive
advantage
and
that
we've
forgotten
how
to
do
it
.
And
people
mainly
do
so-called
shallow
work
,
which
he
defines
as
things
that
aren't
hard
and
or
you
could
easily
train
someone
to
do
in
,
say
,
six
months
,
um
,
whereas
a
deep
work
is
a
thing
that
provides
these
outside
returns
for
and
it
is
something
that
,
specifically
,
you
can
do
,
no
one
else
can
do
,
um
,
and
that's
where
you
really
drive
value
.
And
,
yeah
,
I
came
across
this
idea
when
I
was
starting
to
work
remotely
.
That's
really
shaped
how
I
do
it
.
It
is
not
especially
complex
,
that's
basically
it
.
He
has
written
a
book
on
it
which
I'd
probably
recommend
,
but
it's
like
okay
,
the
book's
good
because
it
repeats
the
message
so
much
,
um
,
if
you
just
got
it
from
that
brief
summary
,
then
you're
all
good
well
,
what
I'll
do
is
I'll
leave
any
sort
of
resources
that
we
talk
about
in
the
show
notes
,
because
I
think
this
is
useful
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
29:02
This
is
really
not
.
It's
useful
,
yeah
,
so
I'll
leave
that
in
the
show
notes
.
What
I'm
going
to
ask
as
well
about
I
mean
,
obviously
we're
on
this
segment
now
about
deep
work
.
What
are
there
any
particular
sorts
of
tasks
that
deep
work
is
suited
to
,
or
is
it
just
generally
across
the
board
?
Alex Denning
29:17
yeah
,
so
,
um
,
what
cal
recommends
is
splitting
up
your
deep
and
shallow
work
.
Um
.
I
also
mix
in
another
book
recommendation
,
uh
,
something
called
a
book
called
work
clean
,
uh
,
which
is
actually
about
how
chefs
organize
their
uh
workstations
,
and
one
of
the
ideas
in
that
book
is
is
process
time
,
um
,
and
if
,
if
you're
a
chef
like
you
,
you
need
to
chop
up
your
veg
before
I
don't
know
what
I'm
talking
about
.
You
gotta
chop
out
your
veg
before
you
do
the
other
chef
stuff
,
that's
really
on
the
side
yeah
,
um
,
so
in
in
practical
terms
,
that
just
that
idea
from
that
book
was
really
helpful
Strategies for Deep Work Productivity
Alex Denning
30:08
.
Alex Denning
30:08
Um
,
and
say
I
schedule
in
,
say
after
lunch
,
half
an
hour
process
time
and
that's
where
I
deal
with
my
emails
.
That's
how
I
go
on
slack
and
check
um
any
wordpress
stuff
.
So
I
go
on
twitter
,
um
,
and
respond
to
anything
that
needs
like
under
five
minutes
,
say
anything
over
,
that
is
your
deep
work
,
um
,
and
I
guess
you
might
need
to
.
So
like
sending
a
specific
hard
could
be
one
bit
of
deep
work
.
Got
a
right
proposal
.
Um
,
you
might
specifically
schedule
that
in
um
,
say
we're
working
on
,
say
I'm
working
on
some
strategy
stuff
for
a
client
.
I
like
to
work
out
the
whole
day
for
that
and
I
don't
have
any
process
time
on
those
days
,
and
that
means
that
when
you
say
,
have
your
lunch
,
you've
got
the
opportunity
to
take
a
break
.
But
also
maybe
you
come
up
with
the
extra
ideas
which
are
going
to
move
the
needle
for
the
client
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
31:06
Right
,
and
that
deep
work
,
yeah
,
you've
kind
of
given
a
good
,
a
good
view
of
that
,
so
it
could
be
anything
.
I
suppose
it's
not
necessarily
a
standard
time
,
but
anything
over
that's
anything
.
That
is
not
quick
work
,
essentially
something
that
requires
you
to
really
sort
of
focus
,
sit
down
and
really
um
,
let's
call
it
20
minutes
,
20
minutes
?
Alex Denning
31:34
okay
,
it's
an
that
requires
a
like
,
just
a
response
,
then
that's
ideal
candidate
for
your
process
time
.
Um
,
if
it's
something
that
requires
more
thought
,
it's
something
to
set
aside
.
So
the
big
advantage
of
that
is
,
uh
,
that
you
are
much
more
effective
with
what
when
you
are
doing
stuff
.
So
it's
not
,
oh
,
I
see
an
email
,
I
reply
and
it
interrupts
me
and
I
get
back
to
doing
whatever
I
was
doing
before
.
Is
you
?
Because
you
focus
all
your
attention
and
don't
have
these
distractions
available
?
Um
,
it
means
that
you're
able
to
get
them
much
more
rich
insights
and
better
results
that
only
you
can
get
,
um
,
and
that's
why
it's
so
powerful
and
what
are
your
?
Alex Wilson-Campbell
32:26
how
do
you
go
about
achieving
an
environment
?
I
don't
know
Achieving
your
environment
for
deep
work
.
Alex Denning
32:38
So
I
need
to
know
I'm
not
going
to
be
distracted
.
That's
a
good
one
.
I
know
a
lot
of
people
use
noise-canceling
headphones
.
I
actually
use
commercial
ear
defenders
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
32:50
Okay
,
Fair
enough
,
that
is
really
focusing
.
Oh
my
gosh
.
Alex Denning
32:55
Yeah
,
because
I
just
couldn't
find
any
noise-cancelling
headphones
I
liked
.
I'll
blame
you
,
I'll
put
those
on
.
So
if
I'm
at
the
co-working
space
,
for
example
,
I
found
I
wasn't
getting
good
deep
work
there
and
it
was
because
there
was
too
much
happening
.
So
I
needed
to
block
out
sounds
and
I
now
sit
in
the
corner
.
So
I
just
know
I'm
not
going
to
be
distracted
If
I
am
at
home
.
I
just
find
having
headphones
on
helps
.
Just
a
personal
thing
.
Alex Denning
33:29
Um
,
and
yeah
,
I
mean
it's
like
the
system
has
taken
me
is
always
evolving
.
I
have
a
daily
planner
which
has
hours
and
I
block
out
um
process
time
and
deep
work
time
in
that
.
So
I
know
,
like
after
this
call
,
I'm
going
to
do
this
,
as
we
discussed
.
I'm
realistically
going
to
respond
to
my
base
count
messages
and
then
I've
got
something
else
to
do
.
That
means
a
lot
of
friction
because
the
next
action
you've
got
to
take
is
kind
of
automated
there's
no
,
the
procrastination
happens
when
you're
not
sure
what
to
do
next
.
Automated
,
there's
no
,
the
procrastination
happens
when
you're
not
sure
what
to
do
next
.
So
this
just
makes
it
easy
to
realize
what
you've
got
to
work
on
.
Alex Denning
34:12
Um
,
well
,
the
deep
work
stuff
is
taking
breaks
as
well
.
Um
,
so
I
take
a
lot
of
breaks
and
I
eat
a
lot
of
food
because
I
found
that's
what
I
need
to
uh
be
able
to
do
this
stuff
effectively
.
For
a
while
the
focusing
is
tiring
and
for
a
while
I
get
to
half
past
five
and
I
just
want
to
sit
on
the
sofa
all
evening
.
That's
no
use
.
So
,
uh
,
I
now
take
a
slightly
longer
lunch
break
and
might
have
more
to
eat
and
the
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
34:42
You
know
,
that's
fixed
it
but
you
find
that
you
get
more
done
then
than
you
used
to
before
deep
work
for
sure
.
Alex Denning
34:50
Yeah
,
um
.
I
now
,
for
one
of
my
things
this
year
is
actually
do
less
work
um
,
so
I've
cut
my
hours
slightly
,
um
,
and
I'm
pretty
sure
that
I
get
more
done
?
Alex Wilson-Campbell
35:06
yeah
,
do
you
also
,
I
guess
.
For
this
,
then
to
work
,
you
also
have
to
your
team
has
to
know
when
you've
got
these
sections
of
right
exactly
yeah
,
right
.
Alex Denning
35:18
So
if
,
if
you
were
working
on
a
in
a
business
where
,
uh
,
fast
responses
were
valued
,
um
,
this
would
be
tricky
or
you'd
have
to
set
.
You'd
have
to
clearly
set
boundaries
to
like
10
till
12
in
the
morning
,
like
,
uh
,
I'll
get
back
to
you
after
lunch
or
whatever
,
and
that
time
um
is
my
set
aside
time
.
There
are
ways
like
that
you
could
deal
with
it
.
I
know
some
people
put
it
on
their
calendars
,
um
,
when
they're
dealing
with
uh
,
protecting
their
time
,
like
that
,
and
that
also
lets
your
team
know
what's
happening
.
So
one
of
the
things
that
well
,
I
guess
one
of
the
things
that
I
get
to
do
because
I
am
my
boss
,
is
that
I
can
set
those
expectations
internally
and
it's
like
we
trust
you
to
get
on
with
stuff
.
We
need
to
keep
stuff
moving
,
but
it's
a
balance
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
36:18
And
is
deep
work
,
then
is
that
something
that
you
think
,
like
you
said
,
it
may
suit
some
businesses
,
it
may
not
,
but
if
you
are
in
that
,
if
that
is
part
of
your
,
I
suppose
your
culture
,
I
guess
in
many
ways
um
,
is
it
something
that
everybody
needs
to
be
,
um
doing
,
or
does
it
suit
some
people
and
not
others
?
I
guess
?
Alex Denning
36:45
yeah
.
So
this
is
something
that
works
for
me
,
um
,
and
I'm
happy
to
preach
it
,
but
it's
not
something
that's
going
to
work
for
everyone
.
With
all
this
like
productivity
stuff
,
it's
all
about
working
out
what
works
for
you
and
having
a
continually
evolving
system
.
I
think
before
I
did
this
,
I
had
like
other
stuff
,
and
there's
there's
.
There's
no
shortage
of
advice
on
the
internet
about
how
to
do
your
work
.
Yeah
,
often
from
people
who
don't
,
who
aren't
doing
their
own
work
,
because
they're
writing
the
advice
Exactly
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
37:17
So
I'm
hesitant
to
.
Alex Denning
37:19
I
don't
think
anything
works
for
everyone
.
Um
,
I
think
deep
work
can
work
for
,
uh
,
pretty
much
every
like
knowledge
business
,
and
I
suspect
Remote Work Tools and Growth Goals
Alex Denning
37:33
so
.
And
the
example
this
is
something
that
comes
up
in
the
book
the
examples
of
where
there
is
pushback
because
thinking
,
oh
,
that
I
can't
do
that
because
I
have
these
special
circumstances
.
My
clients
need
to
hear
back
from
me
faster
.
The
cow
talks
about
in
the
book
,
like
they
probably
don't
would
your
.
Does
your
client
want
to
have
an
email
?
I
responded
to
within
five
minutes
,
or
is
half
an
hour
?
Okay
,
and
they
get
better
results
as
a
result
.
They'll
take
the
better
results
,
of
course
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
37:58
And
I
suppose
that's
what
remote
work
is
all
about
is
the
outcomes
,
is
the
results
.
Alex Denning
38:07
So
it's
not
.
Yeah
,
it's
all
about
freedom
,
and
maybe
you're
working
from
a
different
time
zone
or
whatever
.
Yeah
,
you
know
,
those
are
some
of
the
nice
things
that
currently
we
can't
leave
our
houses
,
we
don't
get
but
normal
times
that's
,
yeah
,
what
remote
actually
looks
like
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
38:27
And
I
mean
you
talked
about
your
process
.
Do
you
have
like
a
typical
day
then
,
in
terms
of
is
it
hyper
structured
?
Alex Denning
38:35
I
do
the
same
thing
every
single
day
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
38:37
I
was
going
to
say
,
yeah
,
you
sound
like
you
structure
everything
to
the
end
.
Alex Denning
38:44
Some
of
my
team
don't
and
one
of
Peter
,
travels
a
lot
.
I
don't
work
and
travel
because
I
just
can't
.
Um
,
yeah
,
I
didn't
say
anything
every
day
and
uh
,
I
just
find
that
helps
me
.
That's
what
works
for
me
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
39:02
May
not
work
for
everyone
and
I
think
you're
right
,
and
I
think
that
that's
what
it
comes
down
to
.
It
comes
down
to
what
works
for
you
.
But
I
mean
,
in
that
sense
,
you
can
also
you
can
also
have
a
hybrid
,
I
suppose
,
where
you're
doing
a
bit
of
deep
work
and
you're
doing
a
bit
of
shallow
work
,
or
you
know
working
how
you
want
to
work
,
if
you
see
what
I
mean
.
So
it
doesn't
necessarily
have
to
be
deep
work
throughout
the
whole
day
,
or
or
a
certain
set
structure
or
criteria
throughout
the
whole
day
.
I
think
I
wanted
to
get
alex
on
and
talk
about
deep
work
is
deep
work
because
I
want
you
to
,
I
suppose
,
be
familiar
with
it
and
aware
of
,
of
a
method
of
,
of
doing
better
work
,
and
listen
to
his
strategies
as
well
and
his
mindset
about
,
about
getting
things
,
things
done
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
39:50
And
I
,
I
,
I
,
when
I
come
to
think
of
it
now
,
I
do
have
periods
.
I
did
where
,
even
though
I
didn't
know
it
,
where
I
do
do
deep
work
,
although
what
I
need
,
probably
need
to
do
is
have
more
focus
periods
,
especially
now
because
I'm
still
getting
to
grips
with
the
whole
homeschooling
plus
plus
work
scenario
.
So
I'm
going
to
sort
of
start
to
really
sort
of
well
have
started
to
designate
areas
of
my
calendar
to
do
focused
pieces
of
work
,
and
then
you
know
,
mixing
it
in
with
other
stuff
as
well
,
you
know
excellent
do
you
?
Alex Denning
40:26
want
to
talk
.
Do
you
want
to
talk
tools
quickly
?
And
yeah
,
let's
talk
tools
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
40:29
Yeah
,
let's
talk
about
tools
.
Let's
talk
about
tools
go
for
it
in
.
Alex Denning
40:31
about
tools
Go
for
it
In
terms
of
the
tools
that
you
use
.
I've
tried
literally
everything
.
So
here's
the
kitchen
.
So
I've
got
this
thing
here
.
This
is
a
Timeler
Okay
Timeler
.
It's
a
little
like
eight-sided
dice
,
essentially
.
But
you
put
what
you're
doing
,
this
is
what
it
says
email
.
You
put
what
you're
doing
to
like
this
one
says
email
.
You
put
it
you're
doing
on
your
desk
,
and
then
it
connects
your
computer
via
bluetooth
and
then
it
tracks
your
time
wow
,
okay
pretty
simple
like
you
could
.
Alex Denning
41:02
Just
.
This
costs
like
50
quid
.
You
could
just
make
it
,
get
a
dice
and
write
some
things
on
it
and
that
would
be
fine
.
Um
,
the
real
benefit
of
this
is
it
.
It
makes
you
consciously
say
I'm
doing
this
now
,
and
then
you
put
it
down
and
then
your
computer
goes
.
Time
started
tracking
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
41:19
That's
pretty
cool
oh
,
that
is
very
cool
.
Who
makes
that
?
Do
you
know
,
is
it
is
it's
uh
,
I
think
it's
.
Alex Denning
41:25
It's
an
independent
company
.
If
you
time
,
you'll
find
it
mueller
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
41:29
Okay
,
I'll
have
a
look
for
that
.
Never
come
across
that
in
my
life
.
Alex Denning
41:31
Okay
,
that's
a
time
pretty
cool
uh
,
I
use
a
mac
app
called
focus
,
or
do
you
think
it's
like
?
Hey
,
focuscom
?
Uh
,
for
blocking
websites
.
That
was
a
huge
thing
to
start
with
.
I
don't
use
that
so
much
anymore
.
All
of
these
like
block
your
news
feed
,
block
your
twitter
,
whatever
it
is
,
um
,
if
you're
in
the
habit
of
constantly
checking
stuff
,
then
having
a
thing
to
stop
you
from
checking
it
is
very
helpful
.
Um
,
and
there
I'm
sure
there
are
like
chrome
versions
or
windows
versions
or
whatever
.
Um
,
I
,
I
have
a
kitchen
timer
on
my
desk
,
so
if
I
want
to
do
something
for
an
hour
,
like
put
it
on
for
an
hour
,
I
just
find
like
the
ticking
reminds
me
to
keep
focused
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
42:19
I
tell
you
what
certain
background
noises
can
be
stimulating
in
that
sense
,
and
ticking
.
Alex Denning
42:25
That's
another
thing
about
setting
intentions
.
It's
like
I'm
going
to
do
this
for
half
an
hour
off
the
go
and
then
when
you
get
to
half
an
hour
and
it
rings
,
you
know
you've
done
it
or
you
haven't
,
in
which
case
you
can
deal
with
that
.
Then
why
not
?
Why
not
?
Yeah
,
uh
,
yeah
,
and
just
like
in
general
,
I
don't
have
like
open
other
than
when
it's
processing
time
.
Um
,
that's
slack
open
,
facebook
,
twitter
,
all
that
stuff
I'm
guessing
you
don't
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
42:54
You
don't
have
things
like
your
,
your
social
open
,
obviously
,
and
news
.
I
suppose
the
temptation
nowadays
is
to
be
constantly
especially
if
people
are
not
used
to
working
from
home
is
to
be
constantly
checking
on
the
news
yeah
,
I
should
get
the
newspaper
,
which
is
unheard
of
.
Alex Denning
43:13
What's
a
newspaper
people
are
saying
I
know
?
Uh
,
yeah
,
so
,
uh
,
cam
newport
has
a
very
good
blog
,
he's
a
deep
work
guy
and
uh
,
one
of
the
things
uh
that
he
mentioned
in
a
passing
comment
was
how
about
getting
the
newspaper
,
and
that's
so
.
I
get
the
economist
weekly
,
um
,
and
,
yeah
,
I
really
like
it
.
It
shows
me
like
what
has
happened
and
I
I
don't
miss
anything
.
I
do
miss
things
,
but
it
doesn't
matter
.
I
get
what's
happened
after
it's
happened
,
not
what's
happening
.
But
what
am
I
going
to
do
with
?
Alex Wilson-Campbell
43:47
that
information
?
Yeah
,
exactly
,
yeah
,
except
worry
about
it
these
days
,
anyway
.
Yeah
,
yeah
,
no
,
I
get
that
,
and
I
think
I
stopped
getting
newspapers
and
I
I
keep
promising
myself
I
need
to
start
getting
a
delivery
of
the
newspaper
to
you
.
Know
it's
,
it's
,
it's
good
just
to
have
something
in
your
home
sometimes
,
you
know
,
just
um
,
rather
than
having
,
like
you
said
,
constantly
checking
feeds
or
yeah
.
So
I
think
,
uh
,
newspapers
are
a
good
idea
.
So
you
got
a
timer
.
You've
got
,
hey
,
you've
got
,
hey
,
focus
.
You've
got
a
newspaper
and
you've
got
,
uh
,
a
timer
.
So
you've
got
the
kitchen
sink
.
You've
got
the
kitchen
sink
.
You're
churning
through
the
work
by
the
sounds
of
it
.
Alex Denning
44:26
That's
good
,
that's
great
yeah
,
I
mean
,
it's
not
like
I
,
it's
not
like
I
actually
use
all
of
those
at
the
same
time
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
44:35
They're
just
like
things
that
are
there
.
You
know
,
I'm
going
to
look
at
that
Timeler
because
that
to
me
,
is
a
good
idea
.
I'm
going
to
look
for
that
.
So
,
alex
,
what's
in
the
offing
for
Ellipsipsis
?
What's
other
than
you
you're
hiring
?
Alex Denning
44:53
obviously
that
sounds
like
you're
growing
,
then
,
right
yeah
,
yeah
,
we
doubled
our
revenue
last
year
and
we
are
going
to
try
and
do
it
again
this
year
.
Well
,
we
need
more
capacity
to
be
able
to
do
that
,
and
that's
why
we
are
hiring
.
We
may
need
to
hire
someone
else
as
well
,
which
would
be
cool
.
That's
going
to
let
us
do
more
stuff
,
um
,
and
it's
just
more
stuff
I
want
to
do
.
I
like
I
talk
a
lot
about
solving
problems
.
At
the
start
,
I
just
like
solving
problems
,
and
there's
more
stuff
I
want
to
work
on
,
um
,
and
that
is
what
drives
the
growth
for
me
.
We
may
stop
when
I
get
bored
of
solving
problems
or
need
to
solve
a
different
problem
,
but
for
now
,
there's
just
more
I
wanted
to
do
,
and
I
think
we
can
help
our
clients
a
lot
more
.
So
,
yeah
,
that's
our
focus
this
year
.
We're
also
trying
to
become
a
B
Corporation
.
Oh
,
nice
,
nice
.
It's
a
voluntary
standard
for
ethical
businesses
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
46:02
Yeah
,
I
used
to
belong
to
a
B
.
Alex Denning
46:03
Corp
.
All
right
,
yeah
,
yes
,
so
far
it's
been
hard
,
just
a
lot
of
requirements
to
meet
and
we
don't
meet
most
of
them
right
now
,
but
we're
working
on
it
.
Hopefully
we
can
do
that
this
year
and
that's
just
a
nice
external
standard
to
adhere
to
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
46:27
No
,
that's
nice
,
it's
good
and
I
think
that
growth
I
like
the
idea
of
growth
.
That's
the
first
thing
.
The
second
idea
is
and
I
actually
put
out
a
podcast
about
problem
solving
the
day
I
think
again
,
now
more
than
ever
,
I
think
people
want
to
work
with
people
who
solve
problems
,
as
opposed
to
somebody
coming
up
and
saying
I
can
do
SEO
or
I
can
do
content
or
I
can
help
your
WordPress
business
to
get
better
,
but
how
can
you
do
that
?
What
problems
am
I
having
that
you
can
solve
?
So
I
like
that
approach
,
Alex
.
And
so
,
before
we
wrap
up
,
then
,
one
question
that
I
usually
ask
is
what's
the
most
?
I
?
You
work
in
cold
,
cold
working
spaces
when
you
can
and
you
work
at
home
.
Are
there
any
other
sort
of
different
types
of
spaces
that
you
you've
worked
in
at
all
?
Alex Denning
47:23
uh
,
really
boring
at
this
question
.
I
,
yeah
,
um
,
so
I
did
try
like
traveling
and
working
and
I
do
love
traveling
,
um
,
my
wife
and
I
go
to
a
lot
of
places
.
I
just
found
that
I'm
not
good
at
work
,
mixing
work
and
travel
,
so
I
don't
,
um
,
I
go
to
a
,
so
we're
remote
,
but
we
meet
up
a
couple
times
a
year
.
So
like
,
uh
,
that
maybe
counts
.
We
went
to
the
.
We
had
a
team
meetup
in
the
Netherlands
,
which
was
cool
.
I
had
some
fun
working
from
Arizona
for
a
conference
last
year
.
I
did
,
but
it's
not
like
I'm
at
the
beach
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
48:05
Well
,
I'll
tell
you
what
,
though
,
alex
.
I
mean
you
see
quite
a
lot
of
I've
said
this
before
you
see
a
lot
of
videos
on
YouTube
and
across
social
media
of
these
people
living
the
laptop
lifestyle
with
their
laptop
on
their
lap
from
the
beach
or
wherever
.
Yes
,
those
people
do
exist
,
cause
I've
interviewed
some
and
there's
some
really
great
people
doing
it
.
But
I
think
those
people
,
those
gurus
,
make
it
look
really
easy
and
,
look
,
make
it
look
as
though
it's
a
walk
in
the
park
,
just
to
sort
of
rock
up
to
the
beach
or
to
go
to
Arizona
and
just
work
from
from
anywhere
.
It's
not
,
it's
not
that
easy
,
it's
,
it's
.
It's
.
It
requires
planning
in
itself
and
requires
coordinating
,
especially
if
you've
got
a
team
yeah
,
some
people
can
do
that
.
Alex Denning
48:45
I
just
personally
can't
.
I'm
just
like
,
when
I'm
working
I'm
just
on
and
I
just
need
to
be
on
or
off
for
the
work
stuff
.
I
can't
mix
it
.
If
you
can
,
then
like
go
for
it
and
just
make
sure
you
get
an
app
that
gets
your
sound
out
of
your
laptop
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
49:01
Yeah
,
well
,
let's
hope
somebody
invents
something
like
that
.
Well
,
alex
,
it's
been
great
speaking
to
you
.
I
want
to
wish
you
all
the
best
with
ellipsis
and
I
would
urge
,
as
I
said
,
everybody
to
get
across
or
go
across
to
alex's
website
,
which
is
get
ellipsiscom
.
Um
,
at
the
time
of
posting
this
,
alex
is
hiring
,
so
I
hope
you
get
this
message
before
before
um
,
I
I
post
before
he's
not
hiring
,
so
get
across
to
getellipsiscom
.
And
,
alex
,
I
just
want
to
thank
you
for
joining
us
on
the
podcast
and
I
want
to
just
wish
you
all
the
best
with
Ellipsis
.
Alex Denning
49:43
Thanks
so
much
.
It's
been
really
good
.
Speak
to
you
soon
.
All
right
Cheers
.
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