In today’s episode Jim Frawley, the founder of Bellwether, describes how he went from the high-pressure world of Wall Street to becoming a sought-after change management expert.
Jim’s story is a testament to the power of personal milestones—like the birth of his daughter—that catalyze profound life changes, including quitting drinking and starting his own business.
With core values of recognition, altruism, and trust guiding his path, Jim is reshaping executive development through a fresh lens.
Jim shares his take on productivity and the compelling origin story of Bellwether, emphasizing the desire to offer more than the conventional, corporate world could provide. His dissatisfaction with standard practices inspired a company dedicated to impactful leadership and genuine personal growth.
The future of business sounds exciting, especially with AI integration on the horizon. Plus, Jim shares real-life examples of organizational transformation through simple but effective practices.
I reckon Jim’s experiences offer a template for merging personal and professional ambitions and as Jim says, “There are no rules!”
__________________________________________________________________________________________________
Jim is an expert in change management and organizational development. The founder of The Bellwether Method, Jim left a career as a Wall Street Executive to rewrite the rules to corporate and personal development, teaching individuals and executives across the globe how to adapt to change in the new economy and beyond.
Jim is a renowned keynote speaker, best selling author of Adapting in Motion: Finding Your Place in The New Economy, and regular Fast Company Work Life contributor. He’s also the host of Jim’s Take the podcast, a big-time reader, small-time triathlete, and full-time father and husband.
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Change Management Expert Jim Frawley
Alex Wilson-Campbell
0:00
Our
next
guest
on
the
Remote
Work
Life
podcast
is
Jim
Frawley
.
Jim
is
an
expert
in
change
management
and
organisational
development
.
He's
the
founder
of
the
Bellwether
Method
.
Jim
left
a
career
as
a
Wall
Street
executive
to
rewrite
the
rules
of
corporate
and
personal
development
,
teaching
individuals
and
executives
across
the
globe
how
to
adapt
to
change
in
the
new
economy
and
beyond
.
Jim
is
a
renowned
keynote
speaker
,
best-selling
author
of
Adapting
Emotion
Finding
your
Place
in
the
New
Economy
,
and
regular
Fast
Company
Work
Life
contributor
.
He's
also
the
host
of
podcast
Jim's
Take
,
a
big-time
reader
,
small-time
triathlete
and
full-time
father
and
husband
.
So
in
this
first
section
I
want
to
find
out
more
about
you
.
So
can
you
begin
by
telling
me
about
yourself
?
Jim Frawley
0:54
Hi
,
my
name
is
Jim
Frawley
.
I
run
an
organization
called
Bellwether
.
We
are
an
executive
development
firm
based
in
New
York
.
We
run
the
gamut
executive
coaching
,
business
consulting
,
group
workshops
and
we
really
specialize
in
three
areas
One
is
strategic
planning
,
two
is
executive
communications
.
And
three
,
if
we
think
about
change
management
,
it's
really
,
how
do
you
get
people
to
prepare
for
change
when
they
don't
know
what
change
is
coming
?
Jim Frawley
1:17
Um
,
for
fun
,
I'm
a
big
reader
.
I'm
reading
the
thousand
and
one
books
to
read
before
you
die
.
I'm
a
small-time
triathlete
,
love
to
run
and
with
the
kids
and
just
on
me
.
I
have
strong
opinions
,
a
lot
of
strong
beliefs
,
but
at
the
same
time
,
one
of
my
superpowers
,
I
think
,
is
to
withhold
all
judgment
.
I
think
that's
one
of
my
big
attributes
on
why
clients
like
to
work
with
me
is
,
you
know
,
we
have
to
shed
assumptions
,
we
have
to
shed
judgments
,
and
there's
this
constant
dichotomy
between
expressing
my
opinions
without
judgment
on
other
people
and
recognizing
that
other
people
can
have
a
different
type
of
belief
system
,
and
I
think
that's
an
important
part
of
coaching
organizations
and
people
through
it
.
And
if
I
could
speak
on
my
values
,
my
big
ones
are
probably
three
Recognition
is
always
a
big
one
,
but
altruism
and
trust
are
huge
,
and
those
would
be
the
big
ones
.
Jim Frawley
2:10
The
biggest
notable
experience
that
influenced
who
I
am
today
it's
probably
the
one
that
had
the
most
watershed
moments
would
be
the
birth
of
my
daughter
.
I
know
it's
more
of
a
personal
one
,
but
I
now
have
two
kids
,
but
she
was
the
first
.
It
just
completely
led
me
down
a
different
path
.
Kids
can
be
shackles
,
of
course
,
but
without
her
I
wouldn't
have
asked
myself
the
important
questions
that
I
should
have
been
asking
myself
,
I
wouldn't
have
quit
drinking
,
I
wouldn't
have
done
a
lot
of
the
things
.
And
so
I
see
her
and
I
can
recognize
that
I
wish
to
be
an
example
.
Jim Frawley
2:43
I
want
her
to
be
strong
and
you
think
about
why
you
care
about
kids
.
What
do
you
care
about
?
Most
people
would
say
their
kids
,
and
most
people
don't
ask
why
.
Why
do
you
care
about
your
kids
and
what
do
you
want
?
You
want
her
to
be
satisfied
and
happy
and
strong
and
cool
,
and
for
that
to
happen
,
I
know
that
I
have
to
have
my
ducks
in
a
row
and
I
have
to
have
my
ability
to
do
different
types
of
things
.
I
have
to
be
my
best
every
day
.
So
that
really
gave
me
the
motivation
to
execute
and
work
harder
on
all
the
things
that
I
do
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
3:11
As
you
look
back
on
your
life
and
connect
the
dots
that
led
you
where
you
are
now
.
What
are
those
dots
?
Jim Frawley
3:19
It's
fun
to
look
back
on
the
journey
and
what
are
the
big
dots
?
And
there
weren't
many
big
.
I
guess
there
were
always
big
dots
,
but
the
big
ones
for
me
that
I
can
think
about
where
I
am
today
,
um
,
I
never
liked
my
job
.
Uh
,
when
I
was
in
corporate
and
at
30
,
I
had
a
legitimate
epiphany
,
uh
,
laying
in
bed
,
that
I
was
effectively
wasting
my
time
doing
what
other
people
wanted
me
to
do
,
and
that
was
from
a
work
perspective
,
a
dating
perspective
,
a
friend
perspective
,
all
of
those
things
and
,
um
,
that
set
me
on
a
different
path
to
to
make
different
types
of
decisions
.
And
shortly
after
that
,
I
met
the
woman
who
would
eventually
become
my
wife
.
I
feel
like
that
was
aligned
in
some
well
,
and
so
that
was
another
big
dot
.
Jim Frawley
4:00
For
the
first
time
,
I
felt
like
I
had
someone
who
really
believed
in
me
and
my
capability
to
do
different
types
of
things
,
and
I
floated
my
idea
for
starting
a
business
and
getting
out
of
corporate
.
She
said
absolutely
do
it
.
She
was
a
huge
champion
of
it
,
and
so
that
was
a
big
dot
.
From
there
I
got
married
,
we
had
the
kid
,
we
had
our
daughter
,
isabel
,
and
after
that
,
one
of
the
big
dots
for
me
was
my
realization
that
I
needed
a
quick
drinking
.
That
catapult
in
my
business
business
tripled
almost
overnight
when
I
did
that
and
that
was
a
big
,
important
step
for
me
,
and
now
I'm
just
in
constant
learning
mode
.
It's
you
know
,
next
week
is
probably
going
to
be
another
big
dot
.
I'm
off
to
do
an
ayahuasca
trip
,
so
we'll
see
what
comes
out
of
that
.
Um
,
maybe
that's
a
dot
,
but
there
are
a
lot
of
ones
that
set
you
on
your
different
kind
of
journey
and
those
would
probably
be
the
big
ones
off
the
top
of
my
head
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
4:53
Why
did
you
decide
to
become
a
leader
in
your
chosen
niche
?
Jim Frawley
4:57
I
had
been
seeing
a
coach
for
a
long
time
when
I
was
in
corporate
,
because
I
knew
I
wanted
to
do
something
else
.
Jim Frawley
5:01
I
had
no
idea
what
I
wanted
to
do
and
a
few
things
just
kind
of
catapulted
at
the
same
time
and
I
decided
to
become
a
leader
in
coaching
and
consulting
and
development
because
I
was
so
disappointed
with
the
product
that
was
out
there
.
Jim Frawley
5:16
I
remember
sitting
at
the
bank
that
I
worked
and
people
coming
in
to
do
these
workshops
and
everything
else
and
they
were
absolutely
horrendous
and
I
could
not
believe
that
these
people
would
collect
a
paycheck
with
no
accountability
on
their
part
to
make
sure
that
things
actually
worked
.
It
just
wasn't
good
enough
to
the
point
where
I
was
disgusted
with
it
.
It
really
bothered
me
,
and
when
I
think
about
my
values
of
altruism
and
trust
and
making
sure
that
things
are
able
to
get
to
where
they
need
to
be
,
these
people
were
really
failing
the
people
they
were
claiming
to
help
.
And
so
I
knew
that
there
was
a
better
way
and
I
knew
that
there
was
a
better
business
model
and
I
knew
that
accountability
on
the
coach's
perspective
was
so
important
and
yet
constantly
ignored
.
And
it's
ignored
because
they
didn't
have
to
,
and
it's
turned
out
that
it's
become
quite
a
differentiator
for
us
in
the
business
.
But
that
was
,
I
remember
,
sitting
in
one
particular
session
where
I
just
sat
there
and
I
just
started
writing
out
the
business
plan
on
how
I
would
do
this
Remote Work and Executive Development
Jim Frawley
6:12
better
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
6:12
What
was
the
best
advice
anyone
ever
gave
you
and
did
you
follow
it
?
Jim Frawley
6:16
I've
received
so
much
advice
and
a
lot
of
it
,
I
just
don't
take
.
Most
of
us
don't
take
the
advice
.
The
two
bits
of
advice
hit
me
when
I
needed
to
hear
something
.
The
first
one
that
comes
to
mind
was
when
I
started
my
business
.
A
friend
of
mine
gave
me
the
quote
you
can
have
the
greatest
peach
tree
in
Georgia
.
Jim Frawley
6:35
Some
people
just
don't
like
peaches
.
And
that
was
phenomenal
advice
on
selling
a
service
business
.
Because
when
we
have
our
own
business
,
we
put
our
identity
into
it
.
We
put
so
much
hope
and
personality
into
it
and
recognizing
that
it's
just
not
going
to
land
with
everybody
makes
it
so
much
easier
to
build
something
that
will
attract
you
to
the
right
types
of
people
.
Don't
waste
your
time
trying
to
get
a
client
.
That's
not
going
to
be
a
good
client
.
And
now
that
we're
almost
10
years
into
the
business
,
I
don't
have
to
actively
pursue
clients
,
which
is
phenomenal
.
It's
one
of
my
filters
.
They
will
come
to
me
when
I'm
ready
and
I
tell
people
look
,
I
want
to
work
with
everybody
,
but
I'm
only
going
to
work
with
people
when
they
are
ready
,
and
that's
been
such
a
good
driver
in
terms
of
our
brand
and
what
we
wish
to
do
and
accomplishing
good
things
with
clients
to
recognize
that
some
people
aren't
ready
for
the
peaches
yet
.
Jim Frawley
7:29
And
then
the
other
one
was
a
good
quote
that
I
had
read
.
It's
my
favorite
quote
by
Jean-Jacques
Rousseau
.
He
wrote
in
a
letter
to
a
friend
how
can
anyone
be
satisfied
in
life
if
they
are
not
satisfied
with
the
one
person
they
can
never
be
separated
from
?
And
that
is
a
.
It's
just
a
classic
that
you
lie
in
the
bed
,
you
make
and
it
all
starts
with
you
.
And
it
was
a
big
accountability
reminder
of
me
.
If
I
want
to
be
successful
,
then
it's
all
going
to
start
with
me
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
7:56
And
what
made
you
choose
remote
work
and
how
has
it
benefited
you
?
Jim Frawley
8:01
I
was
actually
always
remote
.
You
know
what
made
me
choose
when
I
launched
my
business
10
years
ago
.
I
just
didn't
want
to
pay
for
office
space
.
I
was
too
cheap
and
it
was
just
me
and
all
of
that
,
so
,
as
we
would
add
people
to
the
team
,
they
were
all
in
the
New
York
area
,
so
it
was
fine
,
and
so
you
know
I
would
always
do
that
debate
Do
I
really
need
an
office
space
?
Do
I
really
need
an
office
space
?
Jim Frawley
8:21
Most
of
our
work
comes
to
the
client
.
We
come
to
the
client
individually
and
we
come
to
their
office
and
do
the
work
with
them
.
It's
a
lot
of
high
touch
work
there
and
as
we've
evolved
,
we've
made
some
business
decisions
to
just
outsource
to
vendors
,
and
the
people
that
work
for
me
are
capable
of
executing
at
a
high
level
at
remote
.
So
when
we
were
doing
all
that
,
we
get
together
if
we
need
to
.
But
I
chose
remote
work
primarily
because
it
was
cheap
.
With
COVID
it
just
added
a
whole
different
level
of
flexibility
with
everybody
else
working
from
home
and
it
became
more
open
and
everyone
else
.
So
I
was
able
to
expand
the
business
quite
a
bit
because
the
travel
time
to
clients
was
significantly
cut
back
,
and
so
now
it's
just
become
a
new
tool
for
just
adding
so
much
flexibility
to
what
we're
able
to
accomplish
,
and
so
remote
work
was
really
valuable
for
us
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
9:16
What
are
your
best
tips
for
organizing
your
day
and
staying
productive
?
Jim Frawley
9:22
There
are
a
couple
of
things
that
are
that
I've
learned
over
time
,
working
remotely
I
mean
.
The
first
and
foremost
is
flexibility
is
key
.
Um
,
standard
prioritization
.
Work
always
helps
.
We'll
must
get
done
.
You
know
,
you
kind
of
list
those
things
out
,
you
plan
your
day
,
you
do
time
blocking
whatever
it
is
.
There's
plenty
of
advice
out
there
on
that
.
So
productivity
is
is
there's
.
Jim Frawley
9:41
There's
different
ways
to
think
about
productivity
and
one
of
those
is
just
doing
a
checklist
and
getting
it
done
and
finding
the
time
to
do
it
.
But
what
I
would
also
say
is
what
helped
me
be
more
productive
was
forcing
myself
to
get
social
,
in-person
social
interaction
,
not
through
a
computer
.
If
possible
,
I
would
run
out
and
get
a
cup
of
coffee
and
get
some
kind
of
interaction
.
Or
I
might
work
out
of
the
library
for
a
little
bit
,
for
an
hour
.
It
gets
very
lonely
in
the
house
and
I
don't
think
people
fully
appreciate
the
charge
we
get
from
getting
those
little
mini
social
interactions
,
those
micro
interactions
that
give
us
a
good
blast
of
motivation
,
they
clear
the
head
.
Productivity
will
then
soar
.
Jim Frawley
10:21
And
then
,
in
addition
to
flexibility
,
when
I'm
,
when
,
when
I'm
working
remotely
and
this
is
easy
for
me
because
I'm
the
boss
but
um
the
flexibility
on
timing
.
I'm
super
productive
first
thing
in
the
morning
.
I
work
from
four
to
seven
in
the
morning
and
just
get
so
many
things
done
before
the
kids
are
awake
and
I
get
them
out
the
door
.
Um
,
I
have
some
meetings
in
the
day
,
but
those
three
hours
of
work
in
the
morning
even
if
my
day
goes
sideways
I
know
that
I've
gotten
what
I
need
to
get
done
first
thing
in
the
morning
and
the
rest
of
the
day
is
good
to
go
.
And
so
those
will
be
two
things
.
One
,
use
the
flexibility
to
your
time
system
that's
actually
going
to
get
things
done
,
and
use
that
flexibility
to
your
advantage
,
and
then
go
find
the
social
interaction
that
you're
looking
to
get
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
11:02
So
now
I
want
to
find
out
more
about
the
company
that
you're
part
of
.
So
can
you
please
begin
by
telling
me
more
about
the
company
that
you're
part
of
and
its
origin
story
?
Jim Frawley
11:13
The
origin
story
about
the
company
.
So
the
company
is
Bellwether
.
We
run
executive
development
across
a
number
of
different
industries
,
and
I
had
been
working
in
corporate
and
I
hated
it
mostly
in
the
financial
industry
,
doing
a
lot
of
work
strategic
work
and
executive
communications
work
and
I
really
earned
my
chops
in
2008
,
working
with
the
leaders
in
the
financial
industry
throughout
the
financial
crisis
and
so
I
had
this
incredible
access
that
really
impacted
a
lot
of
what
I
wanted
to
do
and
how
I
saw
an
opportunity
within
the
coaching
consultant
world
,
and
so
while
I
was
working
in
finance
,
I
hated
it
.
I
went
to
a
coach
,
I
put
together
some
business
plans
not
really
knowing
that
what
I
did
was
really
an
option
,
and
I
saw
that
Columbia
University
had
an
executive
coaching
program
and
it
just
jumped
off
the
page
.
I
knew
it
was
the
right
one
for
me
,
so
I
signed
up
for
it
immediately
,
did
it
,
quit
the
next
day
,
once
I
finished
the
program
,
started
the
business
and
then
the
origin
story
of
naming
the
business
.
Jim Frawley
12:09
A
lot
of
people
don't
know
what
a
bellwether
means
.
I
went
with
the
title
of
bellwether
for
a
number
of
different
reasons
.
I
was
speaking
to
a
friend
and
my
daughter's
name
is
Isabel
,
and
she
told
me
,
I
had
to
have
bell
in
the
name
and
name
it
after
her
,
and
so
,
after
thinking
on
it
,
I
settled
on
bellwether
,
which
the
term
bellwether
.
It
means
leader
,
trendsetter
,
all
of
that
,
which
was
an
appropriate
kind
of
analogy
or
metaphor
for
the
business
.
But
the
word
bellwether
comes
from
the
lead
sheep
of
a
flock
.
They
would
put
a
bell
on
the
lead
sheep
of
a
flock
and
everyone
just
followed
it
,
and
it
was
usually
the
hungriest
,
it
was
usually
the
toughest
,
the
smartest
,
whatever
you
want
to
call
it
.
And
so
,
again
,
a
perfect
analogy
for
the
business
that
we
do
is
how
do
you
become
a
leader
,
how
do
you
become
a
trendsetter
that
other
people
will
recognize
and
notice
?
And
it
really
starts
with
you
being
your
own
personal
bellwether
.
So
that's
how
we
got
started
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
13:01
And
what's
unique
about
the
company
.
Jim Frawley
13:03
Yeah
,
coaching
and
consulting
services
are
a
dime
a
dozen
and
I
recognize
that
it's
a
complete
red
ocean
.
But
what
makes
us
unique
and
,
I
think
,
what's
helped
us
so
much
?
Number
one
was
my
experience
working
with
the
executives
in
the
financial
industry
in
2008
.
During
the
crisis
drives
much
of
my
work
today
and
preparing
for
change
when
you
don't
know
what
change
is
coming
.
I
learned
so
much
and
I
had
such
incredible
access
at
that
time
with
the
CEOs
,
coos
,
investors
where
I
had
access
that
most
people
just
don't
have
,
and
I
saw
what
the
good
executives
really
did
amid
crazy
,
crazy
change
and
uncertainty
.
And
that's
being
leveraged
now
in
our
work
with
executives
today
.
But
also
my
philosophy
on
the
coaching
and
consulting
.
Jim Frawley
13:50
I
have
strong
opinions
the
product
we
offer
and
the
service
we
offer
.
If
I
am
coaching
a
team
or
an
individual
or
working
with
an
organization
,
I'm
getting
them
to
coach
themselves
.
I
intend
I
fully
intend
to
work
myself
out
of
a
job
with
each
client
.
No
engagement
starts
without
an
end
date
picked
up
at
the
very
beginning
.
We
have
clear
success
metrics
on
how
to
do
it
.
If
we
don't
hit
those
metrics
,
then
we
give
money
back
.
There
has
to
be
.
Jim Frawley
14:18
One
of
the
big
differentiators
for
us
is
we
have
accountability
on
us
as
a
firm
.
The
organization
pays
the
bill
.
The
person
being
coached
or
team
being
coached
has
to
have
some
kind
of
accountability
on
them
,
and
the
coach
and
consultant
doing
the
work
has
to
have
accountability
on
them
as
well
.
And
so
that's
part
of
the
contracting
at
the
very
beginning
is
how
are
we
going
to
measure
everybody's
accountability
?
And
if
we
don't
deliver
,
then
you
get
your
money
back
and
that's
helped
us
take
the
right
kind
of
clients
,
that
only
the
ones
we're
only
taking
,
clients
that
we
can
help
,
and
so
that's
a
nice
kind
of
differentiator
for
us
that
you
don't
typically
see
in
a
coaching
and
consulting
model
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
14:53
What's
your
philosophy
on
building
a
great
team
?
Jim Frawley
14:56
My
philosophy
for
building
a
great
team
is
twofold
.
One
,
your
people
need
to
have
a
belief
system
in
place
,
and
I
would
argue
that
you
do
not
have
a
belief
system
in
place
if
you
can't
understand
why
someone
would
believe
something
different
than
you
.
You
know
,
oftentimes
what
I
remember
most
in
corporate
was
people
didn't
have
,
or
they
would
take
their
beliefs
to
try
to
pass
them
off
as
truths
.
You
cannot
know
something
and
believe
something
at
the
same
time
,
and
a
lot
of
people
don't
take
the
time
to
appreciate
that
that
point
.
And
so
,
um
,
you
know
,
when
we
think
about
,
uh
,
asking
good
questions
and
how
do
you
set
up
the
right
kind
of
questions
?
You
need
learners
on
your
team
,
and
that's
the
second
part
.
Um
,
they
have
to
understand
,
uh
,
what
a
question
is
.
Jim Frawley
15:40
You
need
people
not
afraid
to
ask
questions
,
and
people
with
a
robust
belief
system
are
able
to
ask
really
good
questions
.
And
when
we
think
about
hiring
people
and
doing
these
types
of
things
is
we
want
to
weed
out
insecurities
at
the
get-go
,
and
so
,
when
we're
building
a
good
team
,
one
thing
I
insist
on
is
teaching
everyone
the
definition
of
a
question
,
and
it
is
a
request
for
information
.
Where
you
legitimately
do
not
know
the
answer
,
you
eliminate
judgment
,
you
eliminate
assumption
,
because
those
things
will
kill
you
when
things
are
changing
so
quickly
.
We
have
to
get
different
perspectives
,
we
have
to
understand
how
to
ask
these
really
good
questions
of
ourselves
and
of
others
,
and
that
is
the
key
to
a
really
solid
team
Elimination
of
judgment
,
elimination
of
assumptions
and
the
ability
to
ask
really
really
good
questions
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
16:25
Can
you
talk
me
through
the
steps
of
your
hiring
process
?
Jim Frawley
16:30
We're
a
small
team
.
We
use
a
lot
of
vendors
,
so
my
interview
process
is
probably
very
different
than
most
.
But
when
I
was
hiring
in
corporate
right
now
,
all
of
our
hires
new
hires
come
from
close
recommendations
.
These
are
people
that
I
trust
.
People
will
tell
me
I
typically
don't
post
for
a
role
.
I'll
usually
ask
people
I
know
for
a
good
recommendation
and
I
can
place
people
that
way
and
it's
a
great
filter
to
kind
of
find
the
people
that
you
want
.
Jim Frawley
16:57
But
when
I'm
interviewing
for
corporate
and
getting
people
placed
in
a
corporate
role
,
I
have
to
figure
out
how
,
uh
,
what
is
their
capacity
for
learning
?
What
is
their
emotional
capacity
for
being
wrong
,
um
,
and
being
okay
with
that
.
So
usually
in
my
questions
for
hiring
is
I
can
ask
a
series
of
questions
to
determine
their
level
of
security
with
themselves
?
Uh
,
a
highly
insecure
person
.
You
can
find
that
out
very
,
very
quickly
,
um
,
and
when
they're
defensive
on
a
team
,
they're
not
going
to
be
an
asset
to
that
team
.
So
I
try
to
weed
out
insecurity
.
I
try
to
weed
out
people
who
aren't
learners
.
One
of
my
favorite
questions
is
what
can
I
learn
from
you
?
And
people
who
have
a
robust
belief
system
and
are
comfortable
with
their
work
product
are
able
to
answer
that
pretty
quickly
and
pretty
well
.
So
those
are
the
two
really
big
things
that
I
look
for
when
I'm
hiring
someone
good
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
17:47
How
would
you
describe
the
company's
success
so
far
?
Jim Frawley
17:50
The
company's
success
so
far
I
would
describe
as
fantastic
.
It's
been
great
,
highly
satisfying
.
For
me
,
success
is
subjective
.
I
don't
put
success
under
the
typical
revenue
numbers
and
all
of
that
that
some
people
would
do
.
If
I
were
to
take
a
look
at
my
business
now
,
uh
,
I
have
pure
flexibility
on
what
I
want
to
do
.
I
have
this
amazing
ability
,
and
a
very
lucky
ability
,
that
I
only
take
clients
that
I'm
able
to
help
,
and
so
now
I
don't
have
to
.
I'm
not
forced
to
take
clients
and
work
that
I
don't
want
to
do
.
I'm
taking
clients
that
are
interesting
.
I'm
working
with
people
that
we
can
see
and
share
success
in
a
really
impactful
way
,
and
so
that
for
me
,
is
such
a
measure
of
success
that
I'm
actually
able
to
enjoy
the
work
that
I
do
,
and
the
fact
that
I
could
build
something
so
focused
on
trust
is
important
.
I'm
able
to
do
that
.
There
are
no
rules
,
there's
no
BS
.
There's
such
freedom
in
doing
whatever
the
hell
I
want
,
and
that
is
the
ultimate
success
for
me
.
Future Directions in Business Development
Alex Wilson-Campbell
18:58
And
what's
next
on
the
horizon
?
Jim Frawley
19:02
There's
so
much
to
be
excited
for
the
company
and
how
we're
looking
at
what's
next
.
We're
involving
in
so
many
different
ways
.
Ai
has
major
influence
in
how
you
can
develop
people
and
really
challenge
people's
assumptions
in
the
way
that
they
work
,
so
we
could
potentially
adopt
some
kind
of
AI
aspect
to
the
business
.
So
we're
looking
at
that
.
So
we're
looking
at
that
how
we're
looking
to
leverage
different
types
of
services
that
are
uniquely
human
but
can
leverage
AI
in
a
different
type
of
way
,
still
bring
real
value
,
Because
ultimately
,
our
work
is
about
the
person
who's
being
coached
or
the
organization
being
consulted
.
Jim Frawley
19:34
So
how
do
we
get
them
to
where
they
need
to
be
in
the
most
sustainable
way
,
the
most
efficient
way
and
the
most
repeatable
way
that
they
can
repeat
what
we
teach
and
it's
going
to
work
for
them
over
time
.
Outside
of
that
,
again
,
no
rules
.
So
I
get
to
do
whatever
I
want
.
I'll
write
another
book
I
have
a
new
book
coming
out
in
early
2025
.
And
then
just
have
fun
doing
the
type
of
work
that
we're
doing
in
a
really
good
and
impactful
way
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
20:02
Is
there
a
particular
team
or
company
whose
culture
you
admire
?
Jim Frawley
20:08
There
are
two
cultures
that
I
saw
that
were
really
,
really
.
They
just
jumped
out
and
it's
all
about
it
.
All
came
down
to
setting
expectations
.
So
the
first
one
was
a
client
who
built
this
culture
of
curiosity
and
questions
,
and
it
was
a
company
that
I
had
worked
with
,
which
made
it
extra
special
.
But
it
was
a
small
team
20
,
25
people
.
Each
day
at
the
beginning
of
the
team
huddle
,
everyone
rapid
fire
went
through
.
Yesterday
I
learned
X
and
some
answers
were
quirky
,
some
were
very
smart
,
but
everyone
learned
to
ask
really
,
really
good
questions
.
They
knew
they
were
expected
to
constantly
learn
and
that
completely
changed
the
way
the
business
was
executing
on
a
number
of
different
things
.
So
every
day
you
had
to
talk
about
what
you
learned
the
previous
day
.
So
that
was
great
.
And
then
the
second
one
there
was
a
large
organization
I
worked
with
,
not
a
typical
type
of
industry
that
you
would
expect
,
it
was
a
construction
firm
,
but
they
,
the
end
of
every
meeting
,
everybody
stood
up
from
the
table
and
pushed
in
their
chair
and
I
never
saw
that
anywhere
,
which
is
kind
of
an
odd
thing
,
but
I
noticed
it
.
Jim Frawley
21:13
And
when
I
was
talking
about
developing
people
and
changing
culture
and
doing
these
types
of
things
and
the
CEO
was
a
little
skeptical
on
.
Can
people
change
?
And
this
was
a
perfect
example
.
Where
I
asked
about
it
,
I
said
why
does
everyone
push
in
their
chair
?
They
said
,
oh
,
one
of
the
previous
owners
demanded
it
and
said
everybody
had
to
push
in
their
chair
at
the
end
of
a
meeting
.
And
that
dictation
,
that
rule
,
just
stuck
with
everyone
.
That
owner
was
gone
,
but
there
was
a
commitment
and
expectation
set
stuck
with
whatever
.
That
owner
was
gone
,
but
there
was
a
commitment
and
expectation
set
.
And
it
was
a
perfect
metaphor
for
change
that
people
can
adopt
good
things
if
leadership
expects
it
and
communicates
it
and
demands
it
.
And
that
was
a
great
example
as
well
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
21:53
And
,
as
we
begin
to
wrap
up
,
what
excites
you
about
what's
ahead
?
Jim Frawley
21:59
There's
so
much
to
be
excited
for
for
what's
ahead
.
There
are
no
rules
.
Now
,
when
you
recognize
that
there
are
no
rules
,
that
you
can
build
anything
and
I
really
believe
that
there
are
no
rules
you
can
believe
anything
that
every
,
every
assumption
you
have
over
time
is
completely
out
the
window
.
And
so
the
hard
part
about
doing
all
of
that
is
narrowing
it
down
into
what
specific
thing
that
you
want
to
go
huge
on
.
But
there
is
so
much
possibility
and
change
ahead
,
which
is
scary
for
so
many
,
myself
included
.
Jim Frawley
22:27
Right
,
there's
an
unsettling
aspect
to
that
,
but
there
is
also
.
There's
an
opportunity
.
You
know
,
when
we
think
about
what
we're
capable
of
building
and
where
we're
going
to
be
in
just
five
or
10
years
is
such
an
exciting
exercise
to
go
through
where
we
can't
even
predict
it
.
Just
five
or
10
years
is
such
an
exciting
exercise
to
go
through
where
we
can't
even
predict
it
because
we
don't
even
know
what's
coming
around
the
bend
.
That
excites
me
in
such
a
very
cool
and
interesting
way
that
we
can
build
whatever
we
want
and
there
are
no
rules
to
prevent
us
from
doing
it
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
22:59
And
what
do
you
like
to
do
when
you're
not
working
?
Jim Frawley
23:02
I
mean
,
I'm
working
all
the
time
.
That's
what
you
get
when
you
you
have
a
business
I
think
entrepreneurs
will
relate
to
that
.
It's
.
It's
always
in
your
head
,
um
,
but
if
I
had
to
categorize
when
I'm
not
sitting
at
the
computer
or
meeting
people
for
the
business
,
it's
uh
,
I'm
either
reading
I'm
reading
1001
books
to
read
before
you
die
or
I'm
reading
some
business
book
or
or
something
.
Um
,
I
read
one
to
two
books
a
week
at
least
.
I'm
running
I'm
a
big
runner
.
Balancing Triathlon and Family Life
Jim Frawley
23:28
I'm
a
small
time
triathlete
.
I
like
to
do
triathlon
,
so
that
takes
up
a
lot
of
my
training
time
or
I'm
doing
something
with
the
kids
.
I
have
two
kids
and
you
know
I
want
to
be
an
active
and
present
part
of
their
lives
.
They're
young
and
I
really
enjoy
my
time
with
them
too
.
Alex Wilson-Campbell
23:44
So
there's
it's
usually
I'm
either
reading
,
running
,
training
for
a
triathlon
,
or
we're
doing
something
fun
with
the
kids
that's
it
for
today's
episode
of
the
remote
work
life
podcast
,
but
if
you're
a
location
,
independent
freelancer
,
solopreneur
,
founder
or
leader
and
want
to
provide
a
case
study
for
the
remote
work
life
podcast
,
get
in
touch
with
me
via
using
the
link
below
in
the
show
notes
.
Spotify
Apple Podcasts
YouTube