In today’s episode Ashley Widener, the Director of Marketing at GoCo, talks through her journey from the conventional office life in Houston to a fully remote work setup. She’s built and led a globally distributed marketing team and her plans to live and work from a van are intriguing. Ashley’s story is not just about adapting to change but embracing it, all while maintaining a vibrant company culture.
Ashley shares how to navigate the unpredictable waters of remote work. Drawing from personal experiences, she reflects on how an unexpected leap into marketing led her to a career brimming with innovation and creativity at GoCo. Her anecdotes about solo travel adventures—beginning in the landscapes of Iceland—illustrate the profound personal growth that comes with taking risks. For anyone contemplating a location-independent career, Ashley emphasizes the importance of understanding what “remote” means and aligning it with personal goals.
In an age where remote work is the new norm, Ashley offers advice on maintaining productivity and developing new hobbies, even in the confines of a van. From orchestrating hybrid events to balancing team dynamics, she shares strategies to enhance communication and teamwork in a remote setting. With tips on building balanced teams and insights on the qualities that make remote workers successful, Ashley’s experience offers a roadmap to thriving in today’s evolving work environment. Join us for an episode filled with inspiration, adventure, and the pursuit of a flexible, fulfilling work life.
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Building a Remote Career at GoCo
Speaker 1
0:00
Hey
,
it's
Alex
once
again
from
the
Remote
Worker
Live
podcast
.
Welcome
and
thank
you
for
joining
us
in
today's
episode
.
And
today
we're
featuring
Ashley
Widener
.
She's
the
Director
of
Marketing
for
the
Growth
Team
at
an
amazing
remote
business
called
GoCo
,
and
I
started
out
by
asking
her
to
just
tell
us
a
little
bit
more
about
herself
and
the
team
at
GoCo
.
Speaker 2
0:24
GoCo
is
an
all-in-one
HR
solution
,
so
we
give
companies
the
tools
to
manage
everything
from
their
employee
database
to
employee
documents
,
payroll
benefits
administration
,
performance
reviews
.
Really
,
any
HR
process
can
be
run
through
our
software
.
I've
been
with
GoCo
for
a
little
over
five
years
now
.
I
started
as
the
first
marketing
manager
hired
into
the
team
back
when
the
team
was
me
and
our
director
at
the
time
and
one
other
marketing
coordinator
so
very
small
compared
to
the
10
people
that
we
have
now
.
I've
been
there
for
about
five
years
and
in
my
director
role
for
about
half
of
that
time
,
so
I
really
helped
build
the
marketing
program
from
the
ground
up
,
played
a
big
generalist
role
,
doing
a
bit
of
everything
while
we
tried
to
figure
out
what
worked
and
,
yeah
,
it's
been
great
the
whole
time
.
Time
really
flies
when
you're
doing
something
like
that
,
building
a
program
from
the
ground
up
.
Speaker 2
1:18
We're
also
a
fully
remote
company
.
We
have
been
since
2020
.
With
the
pandemic
,
we
never
went
back
to
the
office
,
so
I
had
the
unique
opportunity
to
watch
that
transition
and
help
navigate
that
from
a
leadership
perspective
.
So
I'm
really
passionate
about
remote
work
and
talking
about
these
topics
and
how
to
keep
employees
engaged
and
productive
and
all
of
those
questions
that
people
have
when
they
make
the
transition
to
remote
work
.
My
team
now
is
globally
distributed
,
so
our
whole
organization
is
we're
across
the
world
,
but
specifically
on
the
marketing
team
we
have
people
all
over
the
United
States
and
a
couple
of
employees
in
Brazil
as
well
,
so
we're
also
navigating
the
new
global
element
,
which
has
been
really
fun
.
In
my
role
now
I
manage
three
marketers
and
we
specifically
focus
on
demand
generation
,
paid
marketing
programs
,
referral
programs
,
strategy
around
lead
,
life
cycles
and
nurture
.
We
have
another
arm
of
our
team
that
focuses
on
the
brand
and
creative
and
copy
things
like
that
.
I
think
we
have
a
really
well-rounded
team
now
,
but
my
area
of
focus
at
the
moment
is
specifically
in
the
growth
side
.
Speaker 2
2:20
I
lived
in
Houston
,
texas
,
for
about
eight
years
.
That's
where
the
Goko
headquarters
is
and
,
like
I
said
,
we
were
an
in-person
company
at
that
point
.
So
that's
back
when
I
joined
the
team
.
But
I
recently
moved
to
a
small
town
in
Colorado
Springs
and
I'm
actually
working
on
building
out
a
van
to
live
in
full
time
.
So
,
going
all
in
on
the
remote
lifestyle
,
I
am
about
to
be
a
van
lifer
,
so
I'll
be
living
and
working
on
the
road
,
which
I'm
very
excited
for
.
So
definitely
made
that
transition
from
desk
worker
corporate
cubicle
type
of
scenario
to
living
and
working
wherever
I
want
to
,
which
is
really
exciting
.
Speaker 1
2:59
And
what
made
you
choose
to
work
at
the
company
that
you're
at
the
moment
.
Speaker 2
3:03
I
was
actually
recruited
to
GoCo
.
I
wasn't
looking
for
a
role
at
the
time
.
I
was
working
at
a
different
tech
company
in
Houston
,
but
one
of
my
colleagues
had
made
the
jump
over
to
GoCo
to
become
their
director
of
marketing
at
the
time
and
build
out
the
marketing
organization
and
programs
from
scratch
.
So
she
reached
out
to
me
to
see
if
I
would
make
the
jump
with
her
and
help
do
that
.
Like
I
said
,
I
wasn't
actively
looking
for
a
new
role
but
looking
back
,
I
think
I
probably
would
have
been
sooner
rather
than
later
if
the
GoCo
opportunity
hadn't
presented
itself
.
I
couldn't
quite
put
my
finger
on
why
at
the
time
,
but
again
looking
back
,
I
realize
now
that
my
role
was
getting
a
bit
stale
,
even
though
I
had
only
been
there
for
a
little
over
a
year
.
My
focus
in
that
role
was
selling
into
the
customer
database
and
doing
expansions
,
but
they
were
having
a
lot
of
changes
in
the
client
success
team
and
with
the
product
.
So
I
often
felt
like
I
was
more
a
member
of
the
support
team
versus
the
marketing
team
,
which
is
not
something
that
interests
me
.
That's
not
my
area
of
expertise
or
anything
I'm
passionate
about
.
So
I
was
already
starting
to
get
a
little
burnt
out
and
it
also
wasn't
the
typical
fast
paced
environment
you
picture
for
tech
.
So
they
were
a
little
bit
more
established
.
They
were
an
older
company
.
They
were
stuck
with
the
routine
that
they
had
just
doing
the
same
types
of
programs
on
repeat
.
There's
definitely
room
to
be
creative
and
have
new
ideas
,
but
just
not
as
much
as
I
was
looking
for
,
and
I'm
very
much
a
person
who
gets
bored
easily
.
I
need
that
fast
pace
to
keep
me
going
and
if
I
get
bored
I
can't
focus
and
then
that
just
makes
work
miserable
.
So
I'm
constantly
chasing
a
place
where
I'm
going
to
be
stimulated
for
my
brain
,
have
things
to
do
,
have
challenges
and
not
get
bored
.
So
I
was
already
reaching
that
stage
a
little
bit
at
my
previous
role
and
again
that
colleague
reached
out
to
me
and
so
the
timing
kind
of
aligned
very
well
.
I
started
talking
to
GoCo
.
The
company
was
much
smaller
back
then
.
I
think
there
were
about
40
employees
at
that
time
and
we
have
almost
200
now
,
so
a
lot
different
back
then
.
But
that
meant
I
was
able
to
meet
with
what
felt
like
every
employee
at
the
company
when
I
was
interviewing
and
I
definitely
met
with
the
three
co-founders
and
got
to
hear
directly
from
them
their
vision
for
the
company
and
the
product
in
the
future
,
which
was
really
cool
.
Speaker 2
5:14
I
loved
how
excited
everyone
was
about
that
,
about
the
mission
of
the
company
and
how
collaborative
they
were
and
how
fun
.
It
was
one
of
those
offices
that
you
could
just
walk
into
and
feel
the
energy
and
there
was
always
something
kind
of
kooky
going
on
,
maybe
a
little
bit
of
the
stereotypes
that
you
get
with
tech
.
There
was
definitely
a
ping
pong
table
in
the
office
and
there
were
a
life
size
stand
ups
of
the
founders
that
would
catch
your
eye
,
maybe
scare
you
a
little
.
Lots
of
bright
colors
Our
brand
color
is
green
,
so
there
are
these
huge
green
and
white
Lego
blocks
everywhere
.
Colors
Our
brand
color
is
green
,
so
there
were
these
huge
green
and
white
Lego
blocks
everywhere
.
So
a
lot
of
that
fun
stuff
going
on
.
But
you
could
just
feel
it
with
the
energy
of
the
team
too
and
I
loved
that
.
It
was
funny
.
One
of
the
walls
of
the
office
was
all
glass
windows
and
sometimes
it
felt
like
we
were
literally
in
a
zoo
because
the
other
people
in
the
more
corporate
offices
upstairs
would
walk
by
and
just
stare
like
what
are
they
up
to
today
?
But
it
was
because
it
was
just
really
collaborative
and
the
energy
was
good
and
it
made
it
exciting
.
Definitely
not
a
place
you
could
get
bored
at
.
So
that
drew
me
in
.
Speaker 2
6:14
And
then
,
beyond
that
,
like
I
said
,
they
didn't
have
a
marketing
program
in
place
.
Instead
,
they
had
focused
on
building
out
a
really
great
product
and
a
client
success
team
,
which
piqued
my
interest
,
especially
coming
from
the
situation
I
was
in
where
I
felt
like
I
was
having
to
do
client
support
more
often
than
I
wanted
to
.
So
that
really
appealed
to
me
and
the
opportunity
to
build
out
a
marketing
program
from
scratch
with
the
funding
that
tech
companies
have
and
the
support
of
a
developing
organization
.
Even
though
the
marketing
team
was
small
,
there
were
people
who
had
been
at
the
company
for
years
and
who
were
really
passionate
about
the
brand
and
had
been
doing
their
own
guerrilla
type
marketing
,
so
there
was
still
some
support
.
There
was
really
appealing
to
me
.
I
have
worked
at
smaller
companies
in
the
past
and
family
owned
small
B2C
companies
to
build
out
marketing
programs
from
scratch
and
it's
just
not
the
same
thing
.
It's
a
slower
process
there
.
You
have
less
resources
to
work
with
,
so
I
was
really
excited
about
that
opportunity
as
well
.
Speaker 1
7:13
Describe
a
personal
,
notable
story
or
experience
that's
influenced
who
you
are
today
.
Speaker 2
7:19
This
is
actually
a
pretty
easy
question
for
me
to
answer
,
because
there's
a
very
specific
experience
I
had
a
little
over
10
years
ago
that
I
still
think
about
to
this
day
and
use
to
motivate
myself
if
I'm
up
against
a
challenge
.
I've
always
been
a
really
independent
person
.
I'm
the
type
of
person
where
once
I
set
my
mind
to
something
,
I
find
a
way
to
make
it
happen
.
And
after
I
graduated
college
,
I
really
wanted
to
travel
abroad
.
I've
always
loved
traveling
,
always
been
really
interested
in
other
cultures
.
Empowering Career Reflections in Marketing
Speaker 2
7:46
I
studied
cultural
anthropology
as
my
undergrad
degree
and
I
was
ready
to
go
out
into
the
world
and
see
some
of
these
cultures
that
I
had
learned
about
and
just
get
more
life
experience
for
myself
.
Speaker 2
7:58
So
I
started
researching
places
and
I
was
always
drawn
to
very
obscure
locations
I
say
obscure
only
as
in
they're
not
the
typical
top
10
places
you
should
visit
or
top
Europe
destinations
for
tourists
or
things
like
that
.
And
of
course
,
I
couldn't
find
anyone
to
go
with
me
.
We
were
fresh
out
of
college
on
a
budget
.
People
didn't
really
want
to
join
me
on
what
they
thought
were
these
obscure
adventures
.
I
started
making
a
plan
to
go
myself
.
I
think
now
social
media
has
really
opened
up
people's
awareness
about
what's
out
there
and
what
different
locations
look
like
and
how
to
travel
by
yourself
.
But
back
then
it
really
wasn't
such
a
big
thing
,
and
so
I
set
my
sights
on
Iceland
and
most
people
either
asked
me
where
is
that
?
Or
why
do
you
want
to
go
?
There's
nothing
there
but
ice
and
snow
.
And
again
now
we
probably
all
see
these
beautiful
pictures
of
Iceland
on
our
social
media
feeds
and
solo
travelers
go
there
all
the
time
.
But
I
hadn't
really
heard
of
anyone
else
doing
it
or
didn't
really
know
of
a
ton
about
the
country
.
Speaker 2
9:00
So
I
started
planning
by
myself
,
researching
and
preparing
as
best
I
could
,
and
I
remember
one
March
day
,
early
in
the
day
I
think
it
was
like
7am
I
landed
in
Iceland
,
picked
up
my
rental
car
and
started
driving
,
and
my
plan
was
to
drive
around
the
Ring
Road
which
circles
the
whole
country
,
and
I
was
making
my
way
to
a
peninsula
on
the
west
side
,
and
the
weather
was
very
hit
and
miss
,
and
I
had
read
that
it
could
be
,
since
it
was
March
,
it
was
the
off
season
,
winter's
starting
to
end
,
but
the
weather
there
can
just
change
on
a
dime
.
I'd
grown
up
in
Colorado
.
I
thought
I
was
used
to
that
,
used
to
driving
in
snow
,
but
it's
just
a
different
level
in
Iceland
.
So
nothing
really
fully
prepared
me
.
And
as
I
was
driving
,
I
realized
I
hadn't
seen
another
living
soul
in
a
couple
of
hours
.
And
again
,
I
am
a
very
independent
person
,
but
I
had
never
been
so
alone
and
isolated
,
not
in
a
city
surrounded
by
other
people
.
Speaker 2
9:53
So
that
was
a
very
new
experience
and
my
brain
started
popping
up
these
questions
that
just
started
to
build
anxiety
.
I
was
asking
myself
why
did
I
come
here
?
Why
couldn't
I
have
picked
something
easier
?
Why
do
I
always
have
to
take
things
to
the
extreme
?
I
should
just
go
home
.
We
could
still
turn
around
,
we
could
go
home
,
we
could
go
,
stay
in
the
city
,
not
drive
around
,
and
just
kept
building
up
in
my
head
.
Speaker 2
10:15
And
then
a
snowstorm
moved
in
and
it
was
a
complete
whiteout
and
I
just
stopped
driving
and
it
was
a
moment
where
I
could
have
completely
built
off
the
anxiety
that
was
already
spinning
in
my
head
.
But
I
just
remember
so
distinctly
this
new
confidence
or
power
over
my
own
thoughts
coming
up
,
and
I
was
what
am
I
talking
about
?
I've
been
dreaming
about
traveling
like
this
for
years
dreaming
about
Iceland
specifically
for
almost
a
year
and
planning
,
researching
.
I
know
what
I
got
into
.
I
know
what
I'm
capable
of
,
I
can
do
this
,
and
I
just
felt
this
sense
of
peace
wash
over
me
and
I
continued
on
my
way
.
Speaker 2
10:52
And
I
did
have
a
few
other
moments
during
that
trip
that
invoked
that
same
sense
of
anxiety
and
,
I
think
,
allowed
me
to
practice
,
calling
on
this
new
confidence
and
this
new
power
.
So
I
still
just
remember
that
feeling
so
distinctly
in
my
head
and
I'm
still
able
to
call
on
it
for
that
day
.
I
think
that's
what's
helped
me
,
when
I've
been
thrust
into
challenges
,
personally
and
professionally
,
get
through
them
.
I
let
myself
ask
those
anxious
questions
and
then
I
call
on
this
power
and
say
,
no
,
I'm
capable
of
this
,
I
know
I
can
figure
it
out
,
or
I
know
that
I
already
know
what
I
need
to
do
,
so
I
can
.
Speaker 1
11:27
Then
what
are
your
aspirations
for
your
career
going
forward
?
Speaker 2
11:35
The
last
question
you
asked
me
was
easy
.
This
one
is
always
one
of
the
hardest
questions
.
I
have
always
struggled
to
plan
out
my
career
aspirations
and
I've
seen
that
things
have
changed
so
much
for
me
.
I
actually
,
when
I
started
my
career
,
was
in
nonprofits
and
in
event
planning
and
I
thought
that
I
did
not
want
to
go
into
marketing
.
I
thought
that
I
did
not
like
marketing
and
I
think
I
only
pictured
madmen
,
ad
agencies
,
things
like
that
,
and
I've
always
ended
up
in
marketing
roles
which
got
me
to
where
I
am
today
.
Speaker 2
12:07
When
I
got
out
of
nonprofits
,
I
was
at
a
marketing
agency
,
but
it
was
a
small
agency
for
local
businesses
.
We
were
working
on
really
mom
and
pop
shops
,
moving
them
out
of
phone
books
into
the
internet
,
not
doing
this
big
digital
campaigns
and
strategies
like
I
managed
today
.
So
for
many
years
I
thought
I
did
not
like
marketing
and
so
I
kept
bouncing
around
and
always
ended
up
back
in
these
marketing
roles
.
I
even
went
back
to
school
to
get
an
MBA
in
international
business
,
still
trying
to
figure
out
exactly
what
I
wanted
my
career
to
look
like
,
and
I
think
I
learned
when
I
finally
stopped
trying
to
plan
so
far
out
and
to
go
with
the
flow
but
check
in
with
myself
regularly
and
make
sure
I'm
on
the
right
path
.
Things
started
falling
into
place
,
so
I
really
do
love
where
I'm
at
now
.
Speaker 2
12:54
Goco
is
at
a
growth
stage
and
I
mentioned
earlier
that
if
I
get
bored
I
move
on
or
I
become
miserable
,
and
I
don't
see
that
happening
.
Just
in
the
five
years
that
I've
been
here
,
I
feel
like
I've
been
at
five
different
companies
because
things
are
growing
and
changing
so
quickly
.
So
I
really
do
love
that
and
want
to
help
move
this
company
along
and
see
it
through
as
long
as
I
can
After
that
.
At
the
moment
,
what
I
see
myself
doing
is
the
same
thing
for
other
companies
.
I
really
love
the
strategy
.
Speaker 2
13:23
I'm
great
at
connecting
the
dots
across
the
strategy
and
the
organization
.
I
think
some
people
can
struggle
to
see
things
when
it
comes
to
understanding
the
technical
and
operational
side
of
marketing
along
with
the
creative
and
campaign
side
.
But
I
think
I
fall
right
in
the
middle
and
I've
heard
that
from
my
peers
,
so
I
would
love
to
help
other
companies
do
the
same
.
So
I
have
considered
consulting
in
the
future
,
but
we'll
have
to
see
where
it
goes
.
Like
I
said
,
I
try
not
to
plan
too
closely
because
that's
where
I've
gotten
myself
into
some
struggles
,
but
I
like
to
just
check
in
with
myself
really
regularly
and
make
sure
that
I'm
on
the
right
path
and
I
know
,
at
the
moment
at
least
,
I
definitely
am
.
Speaker 1
14:05
As
you
look
back
on
your
life
and
connect
the
dots
that
led
to
where
you
are
now
.
What
are
those
dots
?
Speaker 2
14:12
I
think
I
just
alluded
to
a
few
of
the
dots
when
I
mentioned
that
I
did
not
think
I
liked
marketing
,
but
yet
here
I
am
as
a
marketing
leader
.
I
think
,
looking
back
,
I
always
really
have
loved
being
creative
and
pushing
the
limits
a
bit
.
I've
loved
learning
about
people
and
understanding
people
and
connecting
to
people
.
As
I
mentioned
,
my
undergrad
degree
was
in
cultural
anthropology
and
I
just
love
learning
how
people
work
and
think
how
cultures
work
together
,
how
cultures
originate
,
what
happens
when
a
group
of
people
is
together
and
does
certain
things
and
I
often
joke
that
I
use
that
degree
in
marketing
much
more
than
anything
I
learned
about
marketing
getting
my
.
I
think
it's
just
a
really
ever-evolving
field
.
So
I
think
,
looking
back
now
,
some
of
those
dots
are
my
interest
in
different
cultures
and
how
people
work
.
Speaker 2
15:04
I
was
always
really
passionate
about
event
planning
and
creating
experiences
,
whether
it
be
social
or
professional
.
One
of
my
first
roles
out
of
college
was
planning
a
huge
fundraiser
in
LA
and
it
was
celebrities
,
MCs
,
celebrity
attending
and
just
massive
event
and
I
just
loved
every
minute
of
it
,
creating
this
huge
spectacle
and
creating
an
experience
for
people
.
I
always
love
hosting
and
making
things
special
,
making
themed
parties
down
to
little
details
,
whether
it's
on
the
invitation
,
themed
cocktails
,
themed
food
,
the
decorations
.
I
don't
think
I
just
fully
understood
.
That
is
a
lot
of
what
goes
into
marketing
.
So
when
I
do
look
back
,
I
see
how
the
dots
very
clearly
led
me
here
.
But
it
wasn't
as
clear
of
a
path
in
the
traditional
sense
that
I
knew
what
I
wanted
to
be
.
I
tailored
my
studies
around
it
,
things
like
that
.
Speaker 1
15:58
What
made
you
choose
this
particular
profession
?
Speaker 2
16:01
I
think
marketing
actually
chose
me
as
a
profession
.
I
don't
think
I
actively
made
the
decision
to
be
a
marketer
and
go
all
in
and
say
this
is
my
career
until
a
few
years
ago
,
maybe
at
the
company
that
I
was
at
right
before
my
current
one
.
So
in
the
length
of
my
career
in
general
that's
not
that
much
time
,
but
again
,
I
always
kept
ending
up
in
these
positions
that
involved
marketing
.
And
once
I
was
able
to
connect
all
of
those
dots
and
really
see
what
marketing
roles
are
out
there
and
what
it
could
look
like
in
a
more
structured
way
,
it
finally
clicked
into
place
and
I
chose
that
would
be
my
profession
.
I
think
it
comes
from
the
fact
that
I
had
been
working
at
smaller
companies
.
I
had
worked
at
an
agency
and
had
experience
with
marketing
there
,
but
I
hadn't
really
seen
what
it
could
look
like
in-house
at
a
big
tech
company
or
really
understood
all
of
the
different
roles
that
exist
within
marketing
.
Speaker 2
16:53
So
I
am
a
generalist
.
I
consider
myself
a
generalist
.
That's
been
my
career
,
Even
though
I'm
focused
in
the
growth
side
of
our
team
at
the
moment
and
leading
to
be
generation
marketers
.
I
would
say
I
really
flex
into
the
brand
space
and
the
operations
space
.
So
I'm
still
a
generalist
at
heart
.
I
can't
actually
get
away
from
it
because
I
always
dabble
in
a
little
bit
of
everything
.
But
once
I
realized
that
spoke
to
me
,
I
could
commit
to
it
and
choose
it
as
my
profession
,
and
I've
just
been
able
to
grow
since
then
.
Discovering Remote Career Advantages
Speaker 1
17:24
And
was
there
a
particular
aha
moment
for
you
which
confirmed
that
you're
in
the
right
profession
and
in
the
right
role
?
Speaker 2
17:32
My
aha
moment
,
I
think
,
think
,
also
came
relatively
recently
,
considering
the
span
of
my
career
.
I
think
I
questioned
my
role
for
a
long
time
because
,
like
I
said
,
I
wasn't
sure
that
I
even
liked
marketing
or
that
this
was
what
I
was
supposed
to
be
doing
.
I
was
constantly
looking
at
how
I
could
translate
the
skills
I
had
learned
into
other
industries
or
other
roles
,
trying
to
explore
what
other
people
did
,
what
was
out
there
,
find
something
that
appealed
to
me
.
I
don't
quite
know
what
I
was
trying
to
get
away
from
or
what
I
was
trying
to
find
.
I
think
I
was
just
kind
of
questioning
everything
still
just
a
part
of
growing
up
and
developing
my
career
.
So
I
think
an
aha
moment
that
came
recently
was
a
couple
of
years
after
I
had
been
at
GoCo
and
it
was
one
of
my
anniversaries
.
So
I
want
to
say
it
was
probably
two
years
ago
.
It
may
have
been
my
third
anniversary
and
they
did
a
summary
of
the
things
that
I
had
accomplished
and
it
was
a
very
nice
shout
out
.
Just
,
our
company
is
great
with
recognition
.
So
I
was
very
on
the
spot
getting
a
very
nice
shout
out
.
Just
,
our
company
is
great
with
recognition
.
So
I
was
very
on
the
spot
getting
a
very
nice
shout
out
and
they
showed
everything
I
had
contributed
to
and
really
highlighted
how
unique
some
of
the
ways
I
approach
those
programs
are
,
and
I
think
that
clicked
it
all
together
because
I
could
see
the
impact
that
I
was
having
.
Speaker 2
18:49
I
think
one
difficulty
with
marketing
is
that
we
can
be
a
little
bit
removed
.
So
we
spend
all
of
this
time
strategizing
and
working
very
hard
and
putting
these
things
out
to
the
world
,
but
then
we're
not
the
sales
team
talking
to
the
prospects
that
we're
driving
in
,
we're
not
the
client
success
team
talking
to
our
customers
.
We're
in
our
bubble
just
throwing
stuff
out
there
and
hoping
that
it
works
.
And
,
of
course
,
we're
monitoring
the
numbers
and
we
can
see
different
metrics
that
show
whether
it
works
or
not
,
but
it's
just
not
as
tangible
.
So
I
don't
think
the
impact
had
really
clicked
for
me
.
Speaker 2
19:21
I've
also
I
mentioned
that
I
get
feedback
from
peers
about
how
I
sit
in
this
unique
space
where
I
can
connect
the
dots
across
a
lot
of
different
areas
,
and
I
think
hearing
that
called
out
really
helped
me
have
an
aha
moment
where
I
could
see
where
I
fit
in
these
organizations
and
where
I
fit
in
these
roles
and
what
my
strengths
are
.
I
think
it
had
always
nagged
at
me
.
That
was
something
that
I
was
very
good
at
,
but
it's
hard
to
be
the
one
to
say
that
for
yourself
.
I
needed
that
external
validation
from
others
to
make
it
true
in
my
brain
.
Speaker 1
19:53
What
advice
can
you
offer
to
somebody
who's
looking
to
build
their
own
location
?
Independent
career
.
Speaker 2
20:00
My
first
piece
of
advice
is
to
try
it
out
in
whatever
capacity
you
can
to
make
sure
that
actually
works
for
you
.
I
had
set
my
goal
to
be
a
remote
worker
way
back
before
I
even
started
in
tech
.
So
I
was
applying
for
remote
only
roles
and
back
then
this
was
a
few
years
before
the
pandemic
.
Back
then
those
roles
were
far
and
few
between
.
It
was
a
lot
more
rare
to
have
a
company
that
was
fully
remote
or
allowed
you
to
work
really
location
independently
.
So
I
was
applying
for
those
roles
,
got
a
couple
interviews
,
got
my
hopes
up
,
did
not
get
them
.
Ended
up
at
the
tech
company
in
Houston
,
which
was
very
much
in
Houston
.
They
provided
us
the
opportunity
to
work
one
day
a
week
from
home
and
I
loved
that
.
That
was
my
first
taste
of
a
more
official
work
from
home
situation
.
So
that
only
fueled
my
fire
to
have
that
as
my
goal
.
So
I
previously
talked
about
everything
great
that
drew
me
to
GoCo
.
One
of
the
questions
that
I
had
when
I
took
on
the
role
was
,
because
they
were
location
based
,
there
was
no
work
from
home
option
,
not
even
one
day
a
week
.
So
I
really
questioned
if
it
was
the
right
move
and
originally
when
I
joined
GoCo
I
had
in
my
head
.
I'll
use
this
as
a
launching
pad
to
hopefully
get
one
of
those
remote
roles
at
another
tech
company
.
I
can
come
here
,
build
my
resume
.
Hopefully
in
a
couple
of
years
I'll
move
on
and
be
in
a
remote
role
.
Speaker 2
21:24
And
then
the
world
did
that
for
me
.
You
could
say
for
me
that
was
the
one
good
thing
that
came
out
of
a
terrible
situation
.
But
the
pandemic
forced
us
to
go
home
and
what
we
realized
was
that
our
culture
was
not
sacrificed
.
Sure
,
it
changed
,
but
we
didn't
give
it
up
when
people
were
not
in
the
office
together
and
people
were
actually
more
productive
on
some
teams
.
I
was
certainly
more
productive
when
I
was
working
from
home
.
I
definitely
had
an
adjustment
period
.
It
was
very
weird
to
go
from
being
in
the
office
every
single
day
to
being
at
home
,
having
to
ping
people
on
Slack
,
it
being
very
quiet
.
I
remember
I
put
on
the
live
feeds
of
the
show
Big
Brother
,
which
is
just
people
going
about
their
day
talking
to
mimic
the
office
environment
the
best
I
could
,
because
I
was
just
going
a
little
stir
crazy
those
first
few
weeks
working
from
home
.
But
after
the
adjustment
period
I
have
absolutely
loved
it
ever
since
and
it
works
a
lot
better
for
me
and
my
productivity
and
my
work
patterns
.
So
I
would
say
,
any
way
that
you
can
try
it
out
,
you
should
.
Speaker 2
22:19
And
then
,
for
people
who
are
actively
looking
for
a
remote
role
,
be
careful
with
the
terminology
.
So
I
would
really
clarify
what
remote
means
for
the
companies
that
you're
interviewing
with
,
because
remote
does
not
necessarily
mean
work
from
anywhere
.
Work
from
home
does
not
mean
work
from
anywhere
.
Work
from
home
does
not
mean
work
from
anywhere
.
Some
companies
will
say
that
they're
remote
but
then
require
you
to
come
into
the
office
for
meetings
or
certain
work
days
and
it
adds
up
so
that
it's
not
really
remote
.
You
don't
quite
have
that
flexibility
with
your
schedule
.
Same
thing
with
certain
laws
and
like
payroll
processing
rules
and
things
like
that
.
Not
all
companies
are
going
to
be
equipped
to
process
payroll
in
every
single
state
,
so
that's
why
they'll
sometimes
have
location
requirements
.
Speaker 2
22:59
Like
,
you
can
work
remote
as
long
as
you
live
in
these
five
states
,
but
if
you're
planning
on
moving
around
or
moving
to
a
different
state
in
the
future
,
you
need
to
be
really
careful
and
make
sure
that
is
something
that
they
would
support
or
are
equipped
to
do
.
Otherwise
,
just
be
mindful
that
might
not
be
an
option
they
would
support
or
are
equipped
to
do
Otherwise
.
Just
be
mindful
that
might
not
be
an
option
,
and
then
it
can
also
depend
on
managers
too
.
So
when
you're
talking
to
managers
,
make
sure
that
you
can
actually
be
location
independent
.
Speaker 2
23:23
I
think
there's
a
lot
of
memes
and
jokes
going
around
right
now
about
people
who
are
I
think
they're
calling
millennials
like
sneaky
vacationing
I
can't
remember
the
term
for
it
,
but
it's
like
when
you're
working
remote
and
you
clearly
have
a
hotel
or
something
in
your
background
and
your
managers
,
you're
not
at
home
,
and
if
the
expectation
is
work
remote
,
that's
anywhere
,
and
that's
not
always
the
case
.
So
just
be
really
honest
with
your
communication
or
just
thoughtful
about
that
,
because
you
don't
want
to
get
yourself
in
a
sticky
situation
there
.
I
feel
very
lucky
that
my
leadership
supports
working
from
anywhere
,
including
a
van
I
did
really
luck
out
there
but
it's
definitely
something
that
you
do
want
to
communicate
with
your
organization
.
Speaker 1
24:04
What
made
you
choose
remote
work
as
an
option
?
Speaker 2
24:07
So
I
mentioned
a
few
reasons
in
our
discussion
previously
,
but
for
me
the
biggest
goal
around
being
a
remote
worker
was
having
the
flexibility
to
travel
and
explore
the
world
.
I
just
realized
that
even
if
I
take
weekend
trips
going
back
and
forth
,
I'm
never
going
to
see
as
much
of
our
country
of
the
world
that
I
want
to
see
.
So
I
wanted
to
set
myself
up
to
be
able
to
explore
as
much
as
possible
.
And
then
,
on
the
productivity
side
,
I
would
actually
never
go
back
to
an
office
at
this
point
.
I
learned
so
much
about
myself
and
how
to
be
more
productive
from
being
able
to
control
my
own
work
environment
and
set
up
productivity
spaces
for
myself
.
Speaker 2
24:44
I
remember
in
the
office
and
this
is
the
thing
that
people
say
as
a
pro
for
office
spaces
but
in
the
office
it's
very
easy
for
someone
to
come
up
and
just
say
,
hey
,
can
I
ask
you
a
quick
question
?
And
those
quick
questions
turn
into
rabbit
holes
that
turn
into
long
discussions
,
or
you
just
hear
the
noise
from
other
places
.
I
remember
we
had
an
open
office
environment
in
GoCo
and
we
had
little
sections
for
each
team
.
So
I
sat
in
a
section
with
my
marketing
team
members
,
but
we
were
right
across
from
the
sales
team
members
.
So
they're
,
of
course
,
on
the
phone
all
day
talking
very
boisterous
and
loud
on
the
phone
with
prospects
,
and
I
would
often
go
find
some
hidey
hole
corner
that
was
quiet
to
work
for
myself
.
So
I
was
never
even
working
at
my
desk
towards
the
end
of
the
office
time
anyway
,
and
I
love
being
able
to
set
better
boundaries
for
that
,
because
it
is
really
easy
for
someone
to
just
come
up
and
say
,
hey
,
can
I
ask
you
a
quick
question
and
then
derail
your
whole
day
.
Speaker 2
25:38
When
you're
working
remotely
.
You
can
still
have
that
experience
when
it
makes
sense
.
I
find
that
a
quick
Slack
huddle
or
quick
Zoom
call
people
joke
that
you
know
I
hate
having
to
have
a
30-minute
Zoom
call
to
answer
a
quick
question
.
It
doesn't
have
to
be
30
minutes
.
I
jump
on
for
a
few
minutes
with
my
coworkers
all
the
time
,
but
I'm
able
to
set
that
boundary
.
I
can
say
either
yes
,
I
have
10
minutes
,
I
have
a
hard
stop
in
10
minutes
,
or
I'm
right
in
the
middle
of
something
.
Can
we
do
it
a
little
bit
later
and
I
can
control
my
time
a
lot
more
in
my
own
space
.
So
I
would
personally
never
go
back
.
Now
that
I
do
have
it
and
I
wanted
it
for
the
fun
and
the
glamour
of
the
travel
,
but
just
from
a
productivity
space
and
mental
health
space
,
it's
so
much
better
.
Speaker 1
26:22
And
how
would
you
describe
your
current
company's
culture
?
Speaker 2
26:26
I've
been
saying
recently
that
our
company's
culture
is
very
human
focused
.
We're
a
very
human
company
.
We
care
about
the
human
elements
of
our
employees
very
much
.
The
phrase
we're
a
family
here
has
taken
to
mean
very
toxic
things
,
and
so
I
would
say
that
we
are
a
very
close
team
but
we
care
about
your
family
here
.
So
we
see
the
human
side
of
people
and
try
to
make
that
fit
into
our
culture
.
And
I
think
that
being
remote
allows
us
to
do
that
even
more
,
because
it
gives
you
the
flexibility
to
be
a
parent
and
have
to
pick
up
your
kids
from
summer
school
or
drop
everything
because
your
kid
is
sick
,
or
not
drop
everything
because
you
don't
have
to
drive
into
an
office
or
figure
out
child
care
If
your
child
is
sick
.
You
can
have
them
home
and
still
do
your
job
with
the
remote
schedule
.
So
I
think
we're
very
human
.
Our
struggles
around
that
transition
from
being
in
the
office
to
remote
.
We
still
do
try
to
hang
on
to
some
of
the
relics
of
that
in-person
culture
,
but
it's
been
long
enough
now
and
we've
made
a
really
conscious
effort
to
migrate
those
things
to
this
new
world
that
I
think
they've
smoothed
themselves
out
.
We
also
are
really
inclusive
,
so
we
have
employees
all
over
the
world
.
Evolving Remote Work Culture
Speaker 2
27:45
We're
very
conscious
of
time
zones
and
trying
to
make
events
hybrid
.
Hybrid
events
are
very
hard
.
I
actually
am
the
chair
of
our
company's
spirit
committee
,
which
is
party
planning
,
culture
,
things
like
that
,
and
we
threw
some
terrible
hybrid
events
.
I'll
be
the
first
to
admit
that
it
can
be
so
awkward
when
you
have
one
group
in
person
and
they're
able
to
chat
with
each
other
,
and
then
you
have
the
poor
people
on
Zoom
who
are
just
awkwardly
watching
and
can't
hear
anything
because
the
microphone
picks
up
little
bits
and
pieces
of
what
people
are
saying
.
So
we
definitely
had
to
learn
the
hard
way
how
to
make
these
things
more
successful
.
Speaker 2
28:20
But
we
now
have
a
few
events
that
we
love
running
that
include
the
whole
company
and
connect
across
time
zones
,
countries
and
location
.
We
just
wrapped
one
up
that
was
a
scavenger
hunt
.
We
split
people
out
into
teams
and
gave
them
a
huge
list
of
items
to
find
,
and
it
was
really
cool
to
see
people
collaborating
and
knocking
off
points
and
strategizing
and
things
like
that
.
I
think
we're
also
a
very
evolving
culture
,
which
I
love
.
That's
actually
one
of
our
company
values
,
but
I
think
it
applies
to
how
we
approach
things
like
this
,
because
we're
constantly
trying
to
make
things
work
better
and
make
things
easier
,
for
example
,
with
the
meetings
and
some
people
want
to
jump
on
Zoom
for
30
minutes
,
some
people
don't
.
We
try
to
make
meetings
way
more
productive
.
We
experiment
with
a
lot
of
different
tech
and
platforms
and
sending
out
meeting
notes
ahead
of
time
.
I
think
it's
just
really
cool
to
see
us
evolve
and
take
feedback
and
change
things
as
we
go
.
Speaker 1
29:18
What
qualities
and
characteristics
do
your
hiring
managers
look
for
when
they're
recruiting
new
hires
?
Speaker 2
29:25
I
think
this
is
a
really
interesting
question
as
it
relates
to
the
topic
of
remote
work
,
because
I
think
it
is
different
than
if
you
were
hiring
for
an
in-person
role
,
and
I've
had
this
conversation
with
other
leaders
about
what
that
shift
looks
like
.
I
think
it
can
be
different
for
different
roles
too
.
So
I
think
in
more
senior
roles
you
may
have
an
easier
time
making
the
transition
to
remote
work
.
In
more
junior
roles
,
I
think
there's
a
lot
that
you
can
learn
from
an
office
environment
that
you
wouldn't
pick
up
on
otherwise
.
So
there
probably
are
some
qualities
and
characteristics
that
would
make
for
an
easier
transition
for
those
types
of
people
.
So
I
mentioned
earlier
for
people
wanting
to
get
into
remote
work
to
test
it
out
and
make
sure
you
like
it
.
I
would
add
to
that
make
sure
you
can
do
it
and
just
be
really
honest
with
yourself
,
because
not
everybody
can
.
One
of
the
career
buzzwords
is
self-motivated
.
I
think
that
especially
applies
here
,
but
I
would
redefine
that
a
little
bit
into
self-sufficiency
.
I
think
you
need
to
be
someone
who
can
look
for
answers
,
solve
problems
,
figure
things
out
on
your
own
,
know
where
to
go
.
There's
also
a
level
of
eagerness
and
a
bit
of
confidence
too
,
because
you
need
to
often
track
down
answers
and
it
can
be
intimidating
to
have
to
ping
people
on
Slack
that
you've
never
engaged
with
.
If
you're
new
,
or
ping
BP
level
or
something
like
that
,
you
have
to
have
the
confidence
to
go
in
there
.
I
would
hear
from
new
employees
a
lot
.
They're
like
I
don't
want
to
bug
them
,
I
don't
want
to
bother
them
,
and
bugging
and
notifying
on
Slack
is
the
key
when
you're
remote
,
because
that's
just
your
opportunity
to
talk
to
people
.
You
are
not
in
a
room
with
them
,
you
are
not
constantly
interfacing
with
them
,
so
you
really
have
to
be
self-sufficient
,
figure
things
out
and
have
a
confidence
to
go
ask
people
.
I'd
also
say
that
eagerness
is
a
big
one
.
I
think
eagerness
is
the
best
word
for
it
,
and
it's
not
quite
a
personality
thing
.
It's
related
to
the
confidence
I
was
just
talking
about
.
For
example
,
if
you
have
an
idea
of
something
you
want
to
try
,
or
you're
seeing
results
of
a
report
and
seeing
something
different
,
you
really
need
to
have
that
eagerness
and
confidence
to
bring
up
your
ideas
and
raise
those
points
.
Because
,
again
,
you're
not
interfacing
with
people
.
There's
probably
less
opportunities
where
you're
being
outright
asked
those
questions
,
so
you
need
to
be
the
one
to
surface
those
things
and
I
think
that's
really
critical
to
the
success
of
a
remote
worker
.
Speaker 2
31:46
I
think
communication
is
key
to
again
one
of
those
buzzwords
that
you
could
probably
say
for
every
role
,
but
it
is
especially
important
working
remotely
.
We're
a
camera
on
company
is
what
we
call
it
.
So
any
zoom
meetings
and
things
like
that
,
it's
expected
that
your
cameras
to
be
on
,
and
that's
because
it
can
be
really
difficult
to
understand
what
someone's
saying
and
understand
the
sentiment
behind
it
without
seeing
their
face
.
So
being
camera
on
helps
,
but
we're
still
doing
most
of
our
communication
over
Slack
and
things
can
be
misinterpreted
if
you're
not
communicating
well
.
Tone
can
be
really
difficult
to
come
across
in
text
when
you're
remote
.
So
I
think
being
a
good
communicator
is
key
and
also
having
a
level
of
understanding
of
that
concept
and
not
jumping
to
conclusions
and
things
like
that
is
key
.
Speaker 1
32:33
On
the
flip
side
,
what's
your
philosophy
for
building
a
great
team
?
Speaker 2
32:39
My
philosophy
for
building
a
team
is
all
about
balance
,
so
I
want
to
fill
in
the
gaps
.
I
want
to
identify
everybody's
strengths
and
weaknesses
and
hire
the
opposites
of
that
,
including
myself
.
And
saying
this
out
loud
,
it
seems
like
maybe
that
is
very
common
advice
or
very
well
known
,
but
I
do
think
it
is
a
struggle
for
a
lot
of
people
,
especially
when
it
comes
into
including
the
managers
and
the
team
leads
,
comes
into
including
the
managers
and
the
team
leads
.
So
as
a
team
leader
myself
,
I
am
the
first
to
admit
where
I'm
weak
and
I
hire
for
that
.
So
I
want
to
bring
in
people
who
can
balance
out
those
skills
and
produce
the
most
well-rounded
team
.
Speaker 2
33:16
I
think
the
other
element
to
that
makes
it
challenging
is
not
a
lot
of
managers
know
how
to
manage
when
they
are
not
an
expert
in
that
area
that
their
employee
is
.
Speaker 2
33:25
For
example
,
on
my
team
I
have
a
specialist
who
focuses
on
our
paid
programs
and
she
has
very
technical
knowledge
of
Google
,
search
and
Bing
and
things
like
that
.
Speaker 2
33:35
I
don't
have
that
much
technical
knowledge
.
Speaker 2
33:37
In
my
past
I've
managed
those
programs
via
an
agency
or
very
lightly
before
we
brought
her
onto
the
team
to
manage
them
in-house
.
Speaker 2
33:44
So
I'll
be
the
first
to
admit
that
is
a
weakness
of
mine
that
she
balances
out
with
her
strengths
and
that
as
a
manager
,
it's
not
my
responsibility
to
know
every
single
thing
.
You
have
to
also
build
your
teams
with
people
that
you
trust
,
because
I
trust
that
she
is
managing
those
programs
properly
and
discussing
those
with
me
and
I
,
as
a
manager
,
can
look
at
the
bigger
picture
to
assess
for
performance
and
know
that
my
role
is
not
to
coach
on
the
specifics
of
programs
like
that
,
but
to
connect
the
strategy
and
connect
the
dots
across
the
whole
team
and
bring
the
programs
together
and
orchestrate
at
a
much
bigger
level
.
So
all
about
balance
,
all
about
hiring
for
those
strengths
that
we
need
,
and
I
guess
you
could
add
humility
in
there
too
,
because
all
for
the
managers
to
let
go
of
any
notions
that
they
have
about
hiring
good
people
that
may
overshine
them
and
take
a
step
back
and
let
them
step
into
those
roles
and
fill
those
strengths
where
we
have
weaknesses
.
Speaker 1
34:44
Is
there
a
particular
team
or
organization
whose
culture
you
admire
?
If
so
,
tell
us
about
that
.
Speaker 2
34:51
It's
hard
for
me
to
pinpoint
specific
organizations
just
because
I
have
not
worked
at
other
remote
organizations
and
I
don't
exactly
know
what
goes
on
behind
closed
doors
.
But
from
the
public
standpoint
,
a
company
that
I
look
to
a
lot
is
GitLab
,
and
they
are
probably
one
of
the
most
well-known
and
longest
running
remote-only
companies
.
They
also
have
a
lot
of
really
great
public
documentation
on
how
they
function
as
a
remote
company
,
so
they
have
guides
for
how
to
have
productive
remote
meetings
and
how
to
structure
your
communication
,
and
tips
like
that
that
I
think
is
really
valuable
and
I
love
that
they
share
it
.
Another
one
that's
in
our
space
in
the
HR
tech
world
is
360
Learning
,
and
they
are
all
remote
and
they
also
are
asynchronous
.
They
have
a
very
interesting
culture
that
they
refer
to
as
convexity
and
they
also
have
published
documentation
.
So
on
their
site
you
can
find
blog
posts
and
videos
talking
about
what
this
is
and
it
is
a
very
low
to
no
meeting
culture
and
they
have
some
really
interesting
ways
that
they
collaborate
among
team
members
across
all
different
time
zones
,
all
different
locations
in
the
world
,
and
how
they
make
that
work
.
So
I
think
that's
really
cool
.
Speaker 2
35:57
And
then
in
general
,
not
company
specific
I
am
keeping
my
eye
on
companies
who
are
taking
it
to
the
next
level
.
So
I
think
the
remote
world
work
shows
that
we
can
work
from
anywhere
at
any
time
and
be
productive
.
I
think
the
final
thing
that's
still
clinging
to
the
old
world
is
working
hours
,
which
,
of
course
,
is
important
for
overlap
.
It's
a
very
tricky
topic
when
you're
a
client
facing
and
have
meetings
with
other
companies
and
things
like
that
.
But
I
am
keeping
my
eye
on
those
companies
that
are
implementing
things
like
a
four
day
work
week
,
even
if
it's
just
testing
out
summer
Fridays
for
right
now
.
I
think
that's
the
next
phase
is
a
lot
more
flexibility
with
the
expectations
for
what
a
work
week
looks
like
,
and
I'm
excited
to
hopefully
see
that
change
sometime
in
the
future
.
Maximizing Productivity and Remote Hobbies
Speaker 1
36:44
What
do
you
prefer
to
do
when
you're
not
working
?
Speaker 2
36:46
I
love
to
do
a
lot
of
different
things
.
To
be
honest
,
I
mentioned
that
I
don't
like
to
be
bored
,
so
I
like
to
try
a
ton
of
new
hobbies
and
at
the
moment
I
am
currently
building
out
a
van
to
live
in
,
so
I'm
doing
it
from
scratch
,
completely
by
myself
,
and
that's
involved
learning
a
ton
of
new
skills
and
hobbies
.
I
have
not
used
any
power
tool
except
for
a
drill
before
this
,
and
now
I
have
a
whole
closet
full
of
different
saws
and
drills
and
things
like
that
,
so
it's
been
a
really
fun
project
.
My
next
piece
to
tackle
is
the
electrical
work
,
so
wish
me
luck
on
that
.
But
that
takes
up
most
of
my
time
at
the
moment
and
once
the
van
is
built
I
am
going
to
be
traveling
.
I
love
to
be
outdoors
and
hiking
,
paddle
boarding
,
kayaking
at
the
ocean
,
so
really
looking
forward
to
some
adventures
there
.
Speaker 1
37:36
What
are
your
best
tips
for
organizing
your
day
and
staying
productive
while
working
remotely
?
Speaker 2
37:43
Another
way
that
I
stay
organized
and
,
I
think
,
help
my
team
stay
organized
is
by
making
sure
that
we
have
agendas
and
then
follow-up
summaries
for
meetings
.
Speaker 2
37:52
I
hate
when
we
have
a
meeting
and
people
come
out
and
they're
unclear
and
you
ask
people
a
couple
of
days
later
and
they
each
have
different
answers
or
someone's
done
all
this
work
that
doesn't
need
to
do
so
.
I
try
to
always
have
an
agenda
document
linked
in
any
calendar
invite
,
share
it
with
the
team
before
ask
people
to
add
to
it
.
That
can
also
help
you
determine
if
you
even
need
to
have
that
meeting
,
whether
there's
stuff
on
the
agenda
or
the
stuff
that
is
there
can
just
be
knocked
out
on
Slack
.
And
then
afterwards
I
,
or
whoever
is
presenting
,
I
always
ask
them
to
send
a
summary
and
just
make
sure
everybody
is
completely
aligned
on
what
needs
to
be
done
after
,
and
I
find
that
really
helps
stay
organized
because
you
can
also
make
sure
you're
aligned
on
deadlines
and
when
things
will
get
done
,
and
I
hate
having
to
drop
everything
to
go
shift
to
a
project
.
That
happens
Sometimes
,
it's
just
unavoidable
.
But
for
the
most
part
I
try
to
stay
as
organized
as
possible
with
those
prioritization
type
of
conversations
to
make
.
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